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Dec 23, 2003

Comments

Did you see the PBS three part broadcast on Christianity? Evangelicals should be pissed off seeing that. The broadcast takes much of the faith out of the christianity and shows the historical inaccuracies that would never be mentioned in church. A few examples they cited was the how Jesus spoke Arametic and the gosbel writers wrote in coptic, yet all three gosbels excluding the earlist translations of mark are all these same in translation, which never happens when three independent transators are used.

This is showen by how different the dead sea scrolls are to the gosbel of thomas, and how a oral tradition going to a written tradition changes its power base and control. Anyway, I thought this is relevent to your bashing of the left behind series.

I can't tell if Kleiman is being facetious or thinks he's on to something when he says this:

"Christians are the professed adherents of a foreign dominion, serving a King whose authority is not recognized by the Constitution of the United States. It's not even obvious that people with such divided loyalties ought even to be allowed to vote, let alone have their voices heard in public discourse."

Well, whether it's "obvious" or not, it is the actual truth that U.S. citizenship does not require an oath of blind obedience. Or maybe I escaped having to take mine, through the devious strategy of being born here.

I'll serve whom I choose to serve. If Mr. Kleiman or our government has a problem with my actions, we'll discuss that as needed. But his "divided loyalties" line, even if joking, has very disturbing implications and makes it hard for me to find any merit in the rest of the article.

I believe Kleinman is being facetious; it is a parody response to those who claim that Catholics' obedience to the Pope makes them dangerous to the US, that Jews' longing desire toward a rebuilt Jerusalem divides their loyalties, and that other religions' disregarding of the Divine Power that inspired the Constitution means that they, too, are dubious Americans.

I have heard all of these spoken--the first around Kennedy's election, the latter pair more recently.

I think the comment that the Christian imperative to worship God first and foremost is only the natural continuation.

Dan, of course I've heard the kind of things you're talking about, but it's not clear to me how Kleiman is "parodying" that kind of thinking; he seems to be calling for its wider application, though he then dismisses it because there aren't enough "actual Christians" to be much of a threat. I don't get any kind of threatening vibe from his writing, I think he's just scoring points off religious conservatives, but it doesn't make sense as parody in this case when the people he's making fun of are not relying on any variation of such an argument - so the only purpose it can serve is as a straw man. He doesn't seem aware that the same thing could be said about any non-religious person with strong ethical principles that he values higher than political allegiance.

I am curious & don't want to jump to conclusions, so I just E-mailed him.

It's true; I could have been jumping to conclusions. I look forward to hearing him, or you, clarify.

Back when the US was bombing Serbia, I was acquainted with a few people who were part of a local (Salt Lake City) church heavily influenced by the Toronto Blessing. Their politics were for the most part hugely conservative. One night I was talking to one of them, Brad, and he told me that God had spoken to him. No, I didn't blow him off, because I've had some odd experiences too. So he explained that God told him there was something that He wanted Brad to do. What's that? Brad said. God replied, I want you to pray for someone. Brad said, OK, Lord, who is that? (Thinking of course that this would someone easy to pray for.) God said, Slobodan Milosevic. Brad said, But...but...but and God told him that he, Brad, needed to pray for Milosevic because Milosevic needed prayer and nobody was praying for him. Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather.

After September 11th and then again with the war, I've had opportunity to remember this. "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you..." I will confess I haven't had the guts to pray for Bin Laden or Saddam. And yeah, I feel guilty.

I don't know whether I am a Christian or not. My mother is devout and I was baptised and raised in a protestant church.

I stopped going because I have never been able to bring myself to make the leap of faith required. Christianity was always in conflict with determined skeptism about everything else that is, well, deserving of skeptism.

The ethical standards are, however, deeply ingrained. I don't think loving your enemies is anything more than working to eliminate them. It is very nearly self interest. That's the point. If I love my enemy, he is hardly an enemy, is he? I don't want any enemies. This is a dumb idea?

This does not mean that I will not deal with the Adolf Hitlers, Saddams or Osamas. I can imagine killing an enemy if that was the only way to protect me and mine. But I would take no joy in it.

It was very easy for me to feel compassion for Adolph Eichmann in that glass booth. A mousy little accountant who everyone knew - including he - was a dead man. He was a weak little bureaucrat who got in way over his head. He wasn't worth hating. He was a frightened little man. He was all alone, on television, held up to be despised by the world. I was young - too young to comprehend his crimes - but I felt sorry for him.

Saddam Hussein gets his just desserts. Fine. He's a pyschopath. Fine. He's gone from being in top of his world to a rat in a hole with more - lots more - bad stuff on the way.

But in the proper context, we should show compassion. We do not need revenge. Revenge creates unnecessary enemies. Compassion always surprises, always works in unexpected ways.

"When there is a fork in the road," said my mother, "You always take the high road. You'll see. It always works out better in the end. The low road is often easier and always tempting but never right. Even when the high road costs you in some trivial way you will like yourself better for it."

I think she is right. I don't think Christian standards are that difficult to live by on a personal level. Everyone falls short, but the right course is not that hard to find.

Translating those individual ethical standards to the collective, to the political process, to corporate cultures, to foreign policy...

I think that impossible.

Though I was probably the only one in any doubt, Mark Kleiman has informed me that yes, he was kidding about that.

I've never commented to Slacktivist, and I'm a little behind on my reading due to holiday madness.

I came over here from Boing Boing to read the deconstruction of Left Behind. In the meantime, I've found some fine writing about Christianity that's intelligent and scholarly but still accessible to a semiliterate layman like myself.

Oh, and thanks so much for reading Left Behind so I don't have to.

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