Aaron Burr

Apparently Howard Dean, on CBS News' Face the Nation on Sunday, compared Vice President Dick Cheney to another famous vice president who was later tried for treason.

The comparison is somewhat strained.

First, Aaron Burr was acquitted.

Second, Burr never shot anybody while in office.

Although John Quincy Adams did say, when Burr died, "Burr's life, take it all together, was such as in any country of sound morals his friends would be desirous of burying in quiet oblivion."

Perhaps in an undisclosed location.

Comments

[Lily]

Yeah, in the undisclosed location we should take over by Eminent Domain.

[Crœsos]

Actually, Burr was still the Vice President when the duel occurred, so perhaps there aren't that many differences after all. It was mentioned a couple of times during the Clinton impeachment that Burr was under indictment for murder in both New York and New Jersey during the last eight months of his term, and yet the Founding Fathers didn't deem THAT to be worthy of impeachment.

[L]

Hold on thar!

Burr was too in office when he shot Hamilton. It was 1804; his term didn't expire until the next year. And he was indeed acquitted -- of treason, not murder, due to a conspiracy, the goals of which are still unclear. It may have involved the planned seizure of territories west of the Appalachians, but some believe a more likely goal was the establishment of a Mexican empire, which was a misdemeanor under the Neutrality Act. He actually skipped bail at one point and headed for Florida, which was Spanish territory at the time, but was intercepted in Alabama. He was acquitted because insufficient witnesses could be found to testify against him, even though the conspiracy was undoubetdly real and the Jefferson administration threw its full weight behind the prosecution.

But that was later, after he left office. On the charges of murder laid against him in both New York and New Jersey while he was in office, he was never actually tried. In those days there was no FBI, and he could avoid prosecution by stepping over the state line.

I have no idea why he was not impeached at the time, but he was immune from arrest in Washington DC and the Senate was already impeaching someone anyway, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase. Ironically, Burr presided over the trial, which ended in acquittal.

John Q. Adams said of him after his death, "Burr's life, take it all together, was such as in any country of sound morals his friends would be desirous of burying in quiet oblivion." Sadly, he was far from the last public official of the US for whom that was true.

[Erick Oppeen]

There's no real proof that Burr was ever a traitor; that said, his fleeing does look bad, but when the President of the United States (St. Thomas Jefferson to you) has it out for you as bad as T.J. did for Burr, getting the h*ll out of Dodge strikes me as a good idea. Any modern president that interfered in a criminal trial as blatantly as Jefferson did would be lucky to escape lynching, much less impeachment. As for Jefferson's folly in putting a _known Spanish agent_ in charge of the US Army at a time when war with Spain was a real possibility...words absolutely fail me.

My own theory anent Burr is that he wasn't a traitor---but was a fall-guy for the Spanish agent, General James Wilkinson. All Burr's life, he had a fatal weakness for con-men, and Wilkinson was nothing else but; Andrew Jackson, who knew both men well, thought the world of Burr and said that Wilkinson was "the only man that I have seen that was a villain from the bark to the core."

[Chris]

There are two differences that you missed. First Burr meant to hit Hamiliton; there is no word on whether Cheney actually hit his target (it does show this administration's addiction to collateral damage). Second, Burr shot the ultimate examplar of American capitialism and state corporatism. What are the odds that Cheney would do that? ....
Yeah I couldn't imagine anything that low either.

[Chris]

On a different note, probably the reasons that Burr wasn't impeached were: (1) he was on his way out anyway (2) no one figured that there was enough time to remove him before the election (3) the failed impeachment of Justice Chase probably had dampened everyone's enthuasm for another impeachment trial and (4) Jefferson didn't want to risk an open split in the Republicans over a politician who was self-destructing anyway.

[Reverend Ref]

L said, In those days there was no FBI, and [Burr] could avoid prosecution by stepping over the state line.

Maybe so, but you would think that Jefferson would've had him under electronic surveilence since Burr was evidently an enemy of the state. ;)

Or not.

[Quinn the Brain]

As far as I have read, he was acquitted of treason because he only "attempted" to commit treason (along with his followers, including Andrew Jackson and William Henry Harrison) by breaking off a portion of western land to form his own country. Plus, it helped that John Marshall, chief justice of the supreme court, really hated Cousin Tom. Yes, there was a lot of interference in the case... on both sides.

[Beth]

... you would think that Jefferson would've had him under electronic surveilence since Burr was evidently an enemy of the state.

Still, Jefferson may have had enemies under some sort of surveilence, and if he did, we have no right to criticize Bush for doing the same. (Of course Jefferson also owned slaves, so I suppose Bush must be allowed that privilege as well.)

[L]

there is no word on whether Cheney actually hit his target

Probably it was a genuine accident. But a commentator on the radio today (news radio, not talk radio) pointed out that this has been a wonderful distraction from Scooter Libby's testimony on how he was authorized by superior authorities unnamed to leak classified information.

Erick: Your point is well-taken. But the requirement for two witnesses in a treason trial is a Constitutional one (Article III, section 3) and their testimony must agree in the particulars of what was done ("the same overt act"). The barrier was purposely set high since the accusations of treason were often abused by monarchies. The chance that anyone could prevail on a drummed-up treason charge was virtually nil. And how much actual influence could Jefferson expect to wield, seeing as how his administration had just failed to convict a Justice on an impeachment?

[Duane]

Thanks for the history, folks. Here's a good one to speculate on:

Who would win in a gunfight, Burr or Cheney? And why? I'm going with Cheney because he has no honor and would shoot Burr in the back before Burr finished walking off his count in the other direction.

[Axiomatic]

Nah, Burr would shoot first (he's got about a century more of experience, so he's obviously the more skilled gunslinger) BUT it wouldn't help him, because Cheney's trusty red lightsaber would deflect all the bullets.
Then Cheney would shout something about "UNLIMITED POWEEEEER", zap Burr full of lightningbolts, and go back to convincing Jar Jar Bush to giving him emergency powers.

[Scott]

Had the accidental shooter/shootee roles been reversed, what navy brig would Mr. Whittington be rotting in right now?

[lbb]

Probably it was a genuine accident. But a commentator on the radio today (news radio, not talk radio) pointed out that this has been a wonderful distraction from Scooter Libby's testimony on how he was authorized by superior authorities unnamed to leak classified information.

I love it. "Dick, we're running out of workable distractions. Go shoot someone. But don't, y'know, kill him, and make sure it's someone who will still proclaim his undying loyalty from his hospital bed."

It's early days yet in 2006, but seems like some of the best lines of the year will come out of this. From one web forum: "My day could have been a lot worse. At least Dick Cheney didn't shoot me in the face." Another: "Does this mean the price of gas will go up another 35 cents?"

[lj]

Check This Out:
Cheney: 'I'm the Guy Who Pulled the Trigger'

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184957,00.html

[wintermute]

Bottle of Blog has some comments on why this took 5 days to get any kind of details about today. There's kind of a tangent in the middle about what hunting is or isn't, but other than that, it's pretty interesting.

[mrlinzy]

By the way, I have been reading ahead in "Left Behind". Without the filter of Fred's exegesis, I find that it really makes a lot of sense and is very convincing. I am starting to think of finding a conservative mega church to join so I can learn more about the future. The only thing that could possibly keep me from going ahead and doing this would be if someone took the time to explain to me carefully why "Left Behind" is a combination of bad theology, terrible writing, and perverse philosophy.

And if this someone did it every Friday, then I could look forward to it! Does anyone know of a site where I could find analysis like this?

mrlinzy: I don't think I know of any site like this.

[Scott]

Great, we get either the party of "Dead Eye" Dick Cheney, or the Why Mommy is a Democrat party. It's enough to make me want to hunting w/ the VP.

[Kristin Hill]

I, too, am becomming frightfully persuaded by the Left Behind series. I now believe the US should withdraw from the UN (instrument of Satan/AC) and begin to bomb Universities that teach liberal arts. If I'm not rescued from the Dark Side, I will begin to worship at the shrine of Dick Cheney and DubShrub -- because that kind of idolatry is encouraged.

Wake me, Fred, from my PMD delirium.

[cjmr's husband]

I was going to stay out of this, I think the pestering is rude and is definitely non-productive, but I had an LB nightmare last night. Yeech. Rampaging fake-Christians and nuclear weapons. Fortunately, it was clearly labelled as "LB Nightmare" and the phones worked.

That, and the fallout turned me in to Spider-man. That part was cool.

[mrlinzy]

Pardon me if I gave been rude. I stumbled on the "Left Behind" chronicle last year after reading the book, and have been hooked ever since. Like others who have posted, I genuinely look forward to new "episodes", and am selfishly disappointed when they are postponed.

Keep up the good work, maestro.

[AH]

Cjmr's husband -

I'm suddenly seeing great potential for LB crossover specials.

Nicholae Carpathia is about to address the UN, when Spidey sweeps down from the rafters and wraps him in an unbreakable net of spider-silk.

Buck tracks down Jonathan Stonagal, who cackles and outlines the entire evil plot as his heavies prepare to smash the poor journalist's skull open. Suddenly the Hulk rips open the side of the building and squishes him.

The world doesn't end, general rejoicing, flutes and hautboys, exit pursued by bear, etc.

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