Friday Random 10

"Promise What You Will," Iron & Wine
Jesus God, they did it. They declared torture legal.
"Forever Young," Alphaville
Freaking torture. I'm back on my heels ...
"Saturday Afternoon," Green
Makes all the rest of this seem like a trivial waste of time
"Pictures of You," The Cure
Who cares what's on my iPod when they're shredding the Constitution?
"And She Was," Talking Heads
When they declare that human rights are conditional ...
"So Tonight That I Might See," Mazzy Star
... no longer inalienable, granted only by executive whim
"Lonely Moon," Mark Heard
Remember the rule of law?
"Shaking Through," REM
Remember when we were the Good Guys?
"Strange Boat," The Waterboys
I need a drink and a plan, spray paint, matches ...
"Chocolate Cake," Crowded House

Comments

[kristina]

I'm with you on this. It is horrifying.

But thanks for the random ten anyways.

[hapax]

When I expressed a similar sentiment yesterday, a friend sent the following wonderful quote from a noted anti-Christian:

“I think we should read books, and tell children stories, and take them to the theatre, and learn poems, and play music, as if it would make a difference. I think that while believing that the school of morals is probably doomed, we should act as if it were not. We should act as if the universe were listening to us and responding; we should act as if life were going to win. We should act as if we were celebrating a wedding: we should act as if we were attending the marriage of responsibility and delight." (~Philip Pullman, Univ. of East Anglia lecture, 3 March 2005)

It got me through the day. I hope it does the same for you.

[aaron]

is this the same philip pullman who wrote the 'his dark materials' trilogy?

[Jon H]

When Bush said his favorite philosopher was Jesus...

was he talking about some authoritarian right-wing Latin American (hay-soos) dictator-wanna-be I haven't heard of?

Does somebody have a list of the people who did this? Which senators and representatives voted for this? Or know where to find it? I know there's a record of votes, and probably a web page. Then I can do something. Vote. Make posters with their names stuck next to photos from Guantanamo Bay, so people can see what they're voting for. I don't know. Something.

Does anybody know what would help? I'm getting a law degree so I can stop torture and war crimes, but that takes a couple of years. What can I do now? Any ideas?

[PK]

I'm with Fred on this issue, but "declared torture legal" is hyperbole.

The bill would prohibit severe abuses such as rape and torture but allow the president to "interpret the meaning and application" of the Geneva conventions governing the treatment of war prisoners.

[Mouse]

And if the current sitting president feels that waterboarding doesn't count as torture...

[Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little]

Exactly. The bill allows the President to decide what does and does not count as torture. In what way, then, can the bill prohibit "abuses such as rape and torture"? The President has only to re-categorize the treatment he wants applied.

[Ian Mathers]

This makes me feel.... not better, not exactly. But this is the sort of thing we need the media to be saying, yes? Torture is mostly mentioned at the end, but all 12 minutes is worthwhile.

[Linkmeister]

For " " at 5:14pm, Got yer roll call vote on S3930 (called "the McCain Torture Act" by some witty blogger) right here.

[hapax]

Yes, it is the same Phillip Pullman. I've loved all of his books but #3 of the "His Dark Materials" trilogy, in which I think he let his message trump his story. It's a bit ironic, really, when you think of why the Furies attacked Lyra in Hell...

[Duane]

Jesus God, they did it. They declared torture legal.
Freaking torture. I'm back on my heels ...
Makes all the rest of this seem like a trivial waste of time
Who cares what's on my iPod when they're shredding the Constitution?
When they declare that human rights are conditional ...
... no longer inalienable, granted only by executive whim
Remember the rule of law?
Remember when we were the Good Guys?
I need a drink and a plan, spray paint, matches ...

Relax Fred, it will be rejected on court appeal because it does not preserve habeas corpus protectons. Now we on the left need to work to ensure the following Democrats do not ever get elected as Democrats again:

Senate:

Tom Carper (D-DE)
Tim Johnson (D-SD)
Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
Bill Nelson (D-FL)
Ben Nelson (D-NE)
Mark Pryor (D-AR)
Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Ken Salazar (D-CO)
Debbie Stabenow (D-MI)

Of course Joe For Joe Lieberman voted for it but he's already never going to be elected as a Democrat again.

House:

Robert Andrews (D-NJ)
John Barrow (D-GA)
Melissa Bean (D-IL)
Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
Dan Boren (D-NOT OK)
Leonard Boswell (D-IA)
Allen Boyd (D-FL)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Ben Chandler (D-KY)
Bud Cramer (D-AL)
Henry Cuellar (D-TX)
Lincoln Davis (D-TN)
Artur Davis (D-AL)
Chet Edwards (D-TX)
Bob Etheridge (D-NC)
Harold Ford (D-TN)
Bart Gordon (D-TN)
Stephanie Herseth (D-SD)
Brian Higgins (D-NY)
Tim Holden (D-PA)
Jim Marshall (D-GA)
Jim Matheson (D-UT)
Mike McIntyre (D-NC)
Charles Melancon (D-LA)
Michael Michaud (D-ME)
Dennis Moore (D-KS)
Collin Peterson (D-MN)
Earl Pomeroy (D-ND)
Mike Ross (D-AR)
John Salazar (D-CO)
David Scott (D-GA)
John Spratt (D-SC)
John Tanner (D-TN)
Gene Taylor (D-MS)

I'm not generally one of those purity leftists but this is really a special case. A purely political gambit by Republicans should have been rejected out of hand by Democrats FOR THAT REASON ALONE. Instead, these 46 Democrats VALIDATED the disgusting election-eve politics of a majority-Republican congress that is currently polling in the tank.

So, does your Congressman or Senator support torture, unlimited power for the Executive branch and limits on habeas corpus on their merits or for political expediency? Not much of a choice. Yuck.

Just for giggles, I'm going to break this list down by region, religion, ethnicity and by who is up for election.

[Duane]

I failed to mention there were seven Democrats that couldn't be bothered to cast a vote at all:

Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO)
Jim Davis (D-FL)
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX)
John Lewis (D-GA)
Martin Meehan (D-MA)
Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-CA)
Ted Strickland (D-OH)

I don't want to judge them too harshly for two reasons:

1. They may have a legitimate reason for failing to show up and vote.
2. A part of me thinks not voting on this piece of trash was the best way to indicate it's value.

[pharoute]

Duane: sure it'll be declared unconstitutional (at say the Circuit Court level, SCOTUS will then reverse that...) but serious now, you expect Bush to go "Oh, I guess I can't do that"???? No this was a half-ass attempt to go 'See people, Congress said it was ok, my hands are clean."

[spencer]

Duane -

Jim Davis probably didn't show because of his gubernatorial campaign.

Not saying that's an excuse, but it's probably the reason.

[Dahne]

Remember the rule of law?

As someone who has 'come of age' (is that how they say it?) during this current administration:

No, not really.

[Luke]

Lame as this may sound, but to turn back to Fred's earlier thread on how religious language doesn't work for people outside the sect, how about "Americans for Habeas Corpus"?

I think we can all get behind the idea that if demanded, the body should be produced--regardless of where we started from. It may sound a little like "Fish for Water" but only because some fish want to try to ride bicycles.

If the point of the bill is to hammer Democrats as being lily-livered ninnies about national security, let's remember this: the GOP is the party that gave us Iran-Contra, and it's Reagan who started 9/11 by cutting and running in Beirut, and it's Nixon who put the Mullahs in power in Teheran.

What better trumpet call could there be to any American with five IQ points than to turn out the people who'd rather tear down the republic than give up power. Mess with the bull, you get the horns; I can't imagine any voter will stay home when their senator or representative has legalized breaking all the bones in someone's legs, or shoving someone in a sleeping bag and pistol whipping them til they die. It's the polar opposite of putting gay marriage on the ballot--it puts America, and all the things we hold dear about the republic at center stage: we are not a nation that tortures people. We are not Pinochet, and we're not Franco--we're certainly not Stalin. We didn't defeat them to become them.

So, yeah. The GOP legalized torture and dissolved habeas corpus, which FDR didn't do in WWII, which no president did in the face of nuclear fire from Moscow. Which we only did when half the country lay in revolt to keep a third of its people as chattel.

Al Qaeda is a threat, but it's certainly not a threat that would rend the Republic, though I'm glad that the GOP is perfectly willing to imagine that our freedoms, that have withstood the burning of the capital, the revolt of half the country, two world wars, and the threat of the end of the world, are too fragile for several hundred men around the world; and that we should preempt the terrorists by dismantling the Republic.

Had enough?

Hell yes

http://ezraklein.typepad.com/blog/2006/09/how_the_blogger.html

http://wesleyan.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2211291018&ref=nf

Friends don't let friends vote republican.

[Ian Mathers]

46 Democrats? I'm not even American and that's depressing. Time to talk to my friends in Ohio about Sherrod Brown. And maybe Ted Strickland.

[Dave Lartigue]

I have a request from all the good people here at Slacktivist. Elsewhere I was lamenting this decision and was met with the usual right wingers saying that this was hogwash, we weren't doing anything worse than making prisoners slightly uncomfortable, that Abu Ghraib was simply a few bad apples who have been removed and punished, and that our prisoners are all enemy combatants and not just hapless schmoes picked up and thrown into Gitmo.

Now, I know this is all not true, but I know this because of a great many things I've read over a long period of time.

Is there a sort of one-stop-shop for, say, the Torture Truth? Some place or a few select places with clear documentation that can be forwarded to such people? I realize arguing with many of them is a lost cause, but one or two people has said, "If you have supportive evidence to the contrary, I would like to see it." I'm sure someone has been collecting all of this someplace, just not sure who or where.

[Duane]

Is there a sort of one-stop-shop for, say, the Torture Truth?

http://balkin.blogspot.com/

Marty Lederman's stuff, particularly.

[wintermute]

Time to talk to my friends in Ohio about Sherrod Brown.

As a Lawful Permanent Resident (ie a non-citizen) in Ohio, the really annoying thing is that other than this, Brown was the only person worth voting for in the upcoming election. Of course it's hard to be absolutely sure because 99% of election adverts boil down to "all my opponents have voted to raise taxes, I've voted to lower them", as if Scott is the only voter in the state.

But Brown has sensible policies on gay marriage, the separation of church and state, corporate governance... I had absolutely no qualms about encouraging my friends and family to vote for him, before this. And I suppose that, seeing as his (Republican) competition also used the constitution as toilet paper in this (not to mention everything else), Brown is now the lesser of two evils.

[Jeff]

Dahne:
Remember the rule of law?
As someone who has 'come of age' (is that how they say it?) during this current administration: No, not really.

You are very lucky. During the Clintomn Impeachment, we had Henry F***ing Hyde stand in front of a mic every two minutes and blather about "rule of law". I wanted to smack him the face with a shovel then, and even more so now.

[Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little]

Gah. I never had any faith in "my" Senator Salazar. I was ecstatic when Mike Miles got in the primary against him, and very disappointed when Salazar won that primary. I voted for him in the general election because at least he was running on the Democrat ticket, and Pete Coors--Pete bloody Coors was not only the Republican candidate but dumber than two sticks looking for a fire.

But I didn't want Salazar to win that primary. There was no way I could trust him to act like anything other than a Republican with the wrong party tag on his lapel.

And one of the first things I noticed him doing in office was backing Bush's candidates for the Supreme Court.

Mary Landrieu from my home state? Her I'm surprised at. I'm appalled at them both, but I'm surprised at her.