All the good music

Stumbled across this on YouTube: "Satan's Tool: The truth about contemporary Christian music."

It's part of a sermon by a poor soul named Alan Ives, the music minister at Wyldewood Baptist Church in Oshkosh, Wisc. Ives and his wife Ellen also run their own "ministry" (i.e., mini-industry) called Concord and Harmony, "Presenting godly, conservative, traditional Christian music."

This kind of thing is laughable, but not unusual. Professional scolds like Sketch Erickson, Bob Larson and Bob "Bobby Dee" DeMoss have made a career of this shtick. They function as guards patrolling the walls of America's evangelical Christian subculture, warning against the decadent, worldly society's assaults on the fortress and doing their best to distract its occupants from noticing that the barbed wire they've erected faces in.

Ives' routine involves lecturing about the inherent sinfulness of certain kinds of rhythm. In short, he believes "godly" music should be a march in 4/4 time. Anything else is the Devil's work. Ives specifically condemns the boogie-woogie, the back beat and the break-beat -- playing examples of each on the church piano -- as music that is ungodly because "it makes the body want to dance."

The remarkable -- and pitiable -- thing about Ives presentation is the way he seems to relish the samples of "ungodly" music he performs. It becomes clear that when he talks about this music's irresistible effect on "the body" he's really talking about his body. If it's got a back beat he can't lose it. Alan Ives desperately wants to rock. Standing at the piano, demonstrating the insidious way that boogie-woogie rhythms have tainted sacred music, he seems to be teetering on the brink of letting loose his inner Jerry Lee.

Ives' presentation reeks with the scent of frustrated musician -- frustrated not by a lack of talent (he seems at least competent at the three instruments he plays in the clip), but by the fervent belief that God doesn't want him to do what he seems passionately to want to do.

"I believe God made me for a purpose," Eric Liddell says in Chariots of Fire, "but he also made me fast. And when I run I feel His pleasure."

Every time Alan Ives gets a hint of God's pleasure he backs away, thinking he must be doing something wrong. Then to make sure it doesn't happen again, he redoubles his vigilance on patrol.

And like the rest of the inmates, he has almost successfully convinced himself that the walls are there for his own protection.

Comments

[inge]

Perry, quoting soneone else: He discovered that all of the muscles in the entire body go weak when subjected to the "stopped anapestic beat" of music from hard rock musicians

Never experienced that with Hard Rock. Heavy Metal, OTOH... perfect for relaxing.

[J]

I wish there were more genres of live music that people would keep quiet while enjoying. In smaller venues--bars--I swear the band is in a volumetric arms race with the patrons. The patrons talk, so the band plays a little louder, so the patrons talk a little louder, so the band plays a little louder . . .

I swear this is affecting aspiring musicians'--especially songwriters-- choice of genre, too. Music that can be shouted is up, music that can be crooned is down. And I like some shouted music, mind you, it's just that I'd like there to be a diverse choice. Nowadays, a young woman who might otherwise turn into a respectable jazz/torch singer instead opts to be an Ani Difrancoesque talk-singing folk-rock artist (again, Ms. Difranco is nice and all, but I wish not so many folk would try to emulate her out of a desire to be heard over the constant talking in smaller "starter" venues).

If people want to talk, stay home and do it for free. Let those of us who want to hear the music hear it, without having to endure it at a bone-rattling volume.

Ah, well: At least I can take pleasure in the spread of smoking bar smoking bans in the Midwest. Nothing has done more to open up live music to a wider audience than giving puffers the boot.

[Evan]

Bob Larson, a Christian minister and former rock musician, remembers that in the 70's teens would bring raw eggs to a rock concert and put them on the front of the stage. The eggs would be hard boiled by the music before the end of the concert and could be eaten.

Oh, that's lovely. That's even better than the story a christian friend of mine told me in junior high school, about some friend of a friend of his cousin's teacher who was a rock music fan, but then found god and decided to burn all his albums, and... heard screams coming from the fireplace!! (I later heard a similar story about a dungeons & dragons player.)

Man, I so want to eat some hard-rock-boiled eggs now. I wonder if Black Sabbath eggs taste different from Blue Öyster Cult eggs.

[J]

Man, I so want to eat some hard-rock-boiled eggs now. I wonder if Black Sabbath eggs taste different from Blue Öyster Cult eggs.

Wouldn't it be more likely that the eyes would be beaten or scrambled than hard-boiled?

[ohiolibrarian]

Man, I so want to eat some hard-rock-boiled eggs now. I wonder if Black Sabbath eggs taste different from Blue Öyster Cult eggs.

Sombody send this one to Mythbusters!

[cjmr's husband]

The correct plural of "egg" is "eyeren", not "eyes".

[McJulie]

The only reason I started talking about this at all was because it seemed as if someone (and I forget who - sorry) seemed to be saying that "classical" music has no rhythm, and does not ignite the listener's heart or make one want to dance.

*Raises hand* Me, it was me! I did it! It's all my fault! My original comment was "and what about ballet, is ballet unholy? It's performed to classical music! Classical! Hardly any rhythm at all!" which I, er, intended to be, er, humorous exaggeration.

Exaggeration because, 1. Obviously it has rhythm. Otherwise, orchestras couldn't perform it. And even ballet dancers couldn't dance to it. 2. But it often has very little rhythm in the vernacular, "got rhythm" sense. When preachers talk about music having rhythm, they mean the kind of obvious and insistent beat that gets the typical modern American lay audience tapping its toes.

Note "lay audience." Not dancers. Not musicians.

And if you counter that by talking about the many audiences you have seen fill the aisles during Mozart's "Symphony No. 25 In G Minor" in a spontaneous outbreak of dancing that had to be put down by the ushers, all I can say is, I've never seen anything like that happen at a non-rock show. Usually, I'm the only one dancing to the Mozart. And, frankly, other people look at me like I'm nuts when I do.

Also, Mr. Slacktivist, is the title a reference to "Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music?" the classic "Christian rock" tune?

[Jeff]

I wonder if Black Sabbath eggs taste different from Blue Öyster Cult eggs.

They would certainly be different colors!

I'll go Jesu one better: I don't go to concerts much any more (my back can't take the standing required) -- although the Thorogood concert is tempting -- but I hate live albums. I don't need your "clever" quips to the audience, I don't need to know that one of you remembers what city you're playing tonight, and I don't need the audience to cover your choruses. Just play!

[Jesurgislac]

I mostly hate live albums. The big exceptions are the two Johnny Cash prison albums. Those, I love.

(Plus, the Corries - a Scottish folk-singing duo - have some songs recorded in front of a small live audience and that actually works for me: it feels more like overhearing them in a pub with a bunch of appreciative listeners.)

[Ken]

I wonder how that poor guy would feel if someone told him that most of the songs in that hymnal are Christian words put to old drinking songs from the era in which they are written. -- Eric

I hear Bach used to crack up entire choirs in mid-Mass that way; right in the middle would come some riff Bach'd adapted from a drinking (or better yet, bawdy) song...

I remember Bob Larson. -- Zorya

I remember him, too, but indirectly. I first heard about him from a copy of Kooks, Donna Kossy's small-press magazine. Enough said.

[Ian]

Evan: Thanks for getting me to read Vonnegut's "The Foster Portfolio." I'd say why, but I don't want to spoil it either.

[Helen]

After watching that video I had the desperate desire to get to my keyboard and compose some "boogie woogie". I even looked up the words to "Heart and Soul" and decided that I like the song. That's how depraved I am.

The clip reminds me of a bit from "For this Cross I'll kill you" by Bruce Olson (Olsen?). Bruce is evangelising to an Amazonian tribe called the Motilones. They are wary of missionaries because all the other missionaries got their converts to change their clothing and to sing hymns - in other words, evangelising a culture as well as a Gospel. Bruce does have amazing success in telling them about Christ and soon the whole tribe decide to become Christians. One of the men in the tribe composes a song of praise and they all sing it... at which point, Bruce is really disturbed... his first thought is, "if this is Christian, why do they sound so heathen?" Of course he realises that this is really just his cultural prejudice, and not any reflection on the true "worth" of the song.

I think what disturbed me most about this video was the insistence that we be "Christian Soldiers". Ick.

[Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little]

1. I hope I'm not the only person who headbangs to Verdi's Requiem during the Dies Irae.

2. Musicians performing Celtic folk songs wanting their audience to keep quiet? WTF? Are we even talking about the same Celts? Maybe you're just talking about the pretty harp ballad subset? Because I'm thinking of hand-clapping, foot-stomping pipe-and-fiddle reels.

[Michèle]

Nicole:
> 1. I hope I'm not the only person who headbangs to Verdi's Requiem during the Dies Irae.

For me, it's the Dies Irae from Mozart's Requiem. Who can sit still when those strings are going a mile a minute?! (and the Confutatis! WOW!)

The Lacrimosa also makes me want to do a very slow, very "tragic" waltz, like in one of those old B-grade horror movies with the little old grandma who the main female character has to feed every day, but never sees. At the end of the movie, the main female character actually physically turns into the old grandma while the slowly-winding-down music box on the credenza plays an old sad waltz.

Or something....

[Dawn]

I needed to dedicate a whole blog entry to this topic.

[Jesurgislac]

Nicole: Musicians performing Celtic folk songs wanting their audience to keep quiet? WTF? Are we even talking about the same Celts? Maybe you're just talking about the pretty harp ballad subset? Because I'm thinking of hand-clapping, foot-stomping pipe-and-fiddle reels.

Er... is this question directed at me?

My point was that the live recordings I have of The Corries are (that and the two prison gigs Johnny Cash did) the live recordings that work for me, because they sound like hearing them sing to a small appreciative audience: not talking among themselves so you can't hear the singers, not yelling so loud you can't hear the music. That doesn't mean the audience is silent - just that you can hear the singers and the audience responses fit the music.

[ali]

Chris Sligh was just voted off American Idol, he did well in the first rounds when was sticking to Christian music, but really struggled once the songs were picked for him, especially stayinig on the beat.

He was raised in a strict house and only allowed classical music and then went to Bob Jones University, today I read an article where he said he was kicked out for attending a concert with 4Him (a CCM band) and that it was good because he wanted to leave. (His parents would only pay for Bob Jones).

The list of things that students can't bring/forbidden things includes New Age, jazz, rock and country music and CCM. (they also can't go to movie theaters and can only watch G rated movies at someone's house).

[Michèle]

What's "CCM"?

[ali]

Sorry, Contemporary Christian Music.

[Nicole J. LeBoeuf-Little]

At this point, Jesu, I couldn't tell you anymore off the top of my head whether it was you I was responding to. I wasn't responding to a person as much as to a post, and that post said something about "Performers wanting the audience to be quiet" (paraphrase from memory), and that does not equate with "the audience responses fit the music" in my head. That could be because my head is too fuzzy for simple language, or it could be because the language was simply too fuzzy for my head. For whatever reason, when I hear someone say that the performers want the audience to be quiet, I assume that the desire is for a silent audience. And that totally didn't fit my picture of, say, an Altan, Slainte, or Gaelic Storm concert. So there you go.

[Bob Demoss]

Hey, Fred baby, not sure how I got dumped into the line-up with those who think there's a demon lurking behind every beat. In fact, I've argued against that kind of twisted viewpoint for years. Maybe a little fact checking would help your cause. In my case, see Chapter 7 in my book LEARN TO DISCERN in which I argue precisely the opposite of what Alan Ives has been saying.

[Doris Spencer]

Sure would like to know how i could get that vedio of that preacher.Right on preacher preacher it!Most Christians just don't know what draws the Holy Spirit.So many churches are pleasing the peoples flesh instead of feeding the Spirit and souls.

[Jeff]

Hey, Fred baby, not sure how I got dumped into the line-up with those who think there's a demon lurking behind every beat.

Perhaps because Fred read your blog and knew that you "mis-speak" (to use the McCainism) in every post? Your goody about Ahmadinejad's prayer at the UN was a doozy!

[Doris Spencer]

To all of you who are bashing the man I want to say,be careful what you say.I'm almost 63,my oldest child was born in 66.I saw the contemporary movement coming in and said to my mother-in law"aw oh,our christian music is in trouble".I'm a minister's daughter and I've been in church all of my life and our song services have gone from Spirit filled to haveing our flesh satisfied.No instraments are wrong it's how they're played.

[Jesurgislac]

Doris, if your spirit is no longer filled by church music, I suggest that's a weakness in your spirit rather than in church music.

[Doris Spencer]

I didn't say my Spirit was no longer filled.I said with most of the cc songs the Holy Spirit is not present and it's just fleshly music.When I hear Greater Vision or Legacy Five my heart mind Spirit and soul is turned to the things of God.When I hear most contemporary music I thint of American bandstand and Dick Clark and worldly dancing.This is what I mean it is not pleasing to the Holy Spirit.Contemporary Gospel music is taking place of the work of the Holy Spirit

[Doris Spencer]

For everyone who thinks ccm is so wonderful i wish you could have been around before it ever came on the scene.To be honest i enjoy the music with ccm.In my flesh i'd love to dance to it.But it's nothing but emotions.When you listen to music that draws the Holy Spirit it speaks to the heart,mind,spirit and soul and it convicts one of there sins.If ccm is so wonderful,have you drawn closer to the Lord?Do you read your Bible every day?Do you attend church regularly?Think about it.This is what Gospel music is supposed to do for you.It's supposed to lift you up Spiritually cause you to be more Christ like.Are you?

[Doris Spencer]

For everyone who thinks ccm is so wonderful i wish you could have been around before it ever came on the scene.To be honest i enjoy the music with ccm.In my flesh i'd love to dance to it.But it's nothing but emotions.When you listen to music that draws the Holy Spirit it speaks to the heart,mind,spirit and soul and it convicts one of there sins.If ccm is so wonderful,have you drawn closer to the Lord?Do you read your Bible every day?Do you attend church regularly?Think about it.This is what Gospel music is supposed to do for you.It's supposed to lift you up Spiritually cause you to be more Christ like.Are you?

[Doris Spencer]

I see no one has responded to my posts.I hope what i've said has you thinking.Try Jesus BELIEVE ME HE'S SO WORTH IT!!

[85% Duane]

Doris, what kind of response are you looking for? Do you need someone to tell you that yer totally wacky or do you need someone to validate you with Praise The Lord or some other such churchspeak?

[Jesurgislac]

Try Jesus BELIEVE ME HE'S SO WORTH IT!!

Okay, I'll try Jesus. Where do you recommend I start? (And is it really Divine?)

[ako]

it speaks to the heart,mind,spirit and soul and it convicts one of there sins.

So music that doesn't fill my heard, mind, and spirit with guilt and make me fixate on bad things I've done and my own inherent badness is ungodly?

Frankly, I'd rather dance

[Doris Spencer]

Okay,I'll try Jesus.Where do you recommend I start?Thanks for asking.First by realizing you need Jesus and you'll never enter Heaven without Him in your heart as your Lord.Have you ever been saved?Are you saved right now?Do you believe He came to this earth as a baby and He died for our sins?All you need to do is say Lord Jesus I'm a sinner,I'm sorry for my sins.Forgive me and help me to live my life for you.If you mean it from your heart I promise you He will give you a new life in Christ if you will let Him.By the way,do you listen to ccm for the music or the words?

[Doris Spencer]

Okay,I'll try Jesus.Where do you recommend I start?Thanks for asking.First by realizing you need Jesus and you'll never enter Heaven without Him in your heart as your Lord.Have you ever been saved?Are you saved right now?Do you believe He came to this earth as a baby and He died for our sins?All you need to do is say Lord Jesus I'm a sinner,I'm sorry for my sins.Forgive me and help me to live my life for you.If you mean it from your heart I promise you He will give you a new life in Christ if you will let Him.By the way,do you listen to ccm for the music or the words?

[cjmr's husband]

Hey, it's the magic words!

[Jesurgislac]

Doris: Thanks for asking.First by realizing you need Jesus and you'll never enter Heaven without Him in your heart as your Lord.Have you ever been saved?Are you saved right now?Do you believe He came to this earth as a baby and He died for our sins?

I'm sorry, I was making fun, as you'd realize if you click on the links. When I said "where do you suggest I start?" I meant, at the toes, the fingers, or the ears?

[Jesurgislac]

By the way,do you listen to ccm for the music or the words?

I don't think I've ever listened to CCM in my life, but I do have a small collection of CDs with Johnny Cash singing gospel music. Love the voice, more than the words, usually.

Also, I'm an atheist.

[GailVortex]

Okay,I'll try Jesus.Where do you recommend I start?

Jesu, Jesu, Jesu. I'm trying to find the appropriate metaphor to which to compare teasing an obvious Jeeebus-head who's clearly wandered into here--and by here, I mean: EXACTLY AND ONLY this thread--by mistake.

Psssst, Doris, I've got news for you. Any regular denizen of Slacktivist's comments could tell you that a) the regulars include a number of people who couldn't possibly have responded to your drive-by evangelism seriously and b) Jesu would be among them.

---

Actually, now that I think about it--it's a pretty snarky bunch around here, and I'm not coming up with any names whose replies to your comments would have been serious...

[cjmr's husband]

Victor probably would have had something nice, if incoherent, to say.

[Jeff]

I'm not coming up with any names whose replies to your comments would have been serious...

Maybe Angelika, but, yeah, it's going to be a real short list!

Here's something we all agree on!

[Angelika]

Maybe Angelika, but, yeah, it's going to be a real short list!

Well, the trouble is, I couldn't answer, because I fell into Jesu's fiendishly laid trap to lure me away from serious discussion, that is I followed her link and now all my mental energy is consumed by fighting the temptation of leaving my office to buy some chocolate...

But so that Doris does not think we are all a snarky bunch out to mock innocient evangelical drive-bies:

By the way,do you listen to ccm for the music or the words?
Actually, I hardly ever listen to Christian music, contemporal or vintage, at all, unless it is in the context of worship. Listening to music made and intended as worship just for entertainment feels somehow disrespectful to me. (I'm fine, if somebody takes the melody and adds a non spiritual text to it.)

I love to sing in worship almost any kind of hymn, unless the text outright contradicts what I believe. I don't feel that a change in music style affects the devotion and spirituality of my worship - it might affect how often I'm off tune, though.

[the opoponax]

speaking of temptation, the moment i read the word "chocolate" in Angelika's post, one of my office-mates said the word "orange", leaving me with a terrible craving for chocolate oranges.

[Jesurgislac]

GailVortex: Jesu, Jesu, Jesu. I'm trying to find the appropriate metaphor to which to compare teasing an obvious Jeeebus-head who's clearly wandered into here--and by here, I mean: EXACTLY AND ONLY this thread--by mistake.

*attempts to look ashamed*
*giggling too hard*

Honestly, I thought for sure Doris would click at least one of those links.

Angelika: Well, the trouble is, I couldn't answer, because I fell into Jesu's fiendishly laid trap to lure me away from serious discussion, that is I followed her link and now all my mental energy is consumed by fighting the temptation of leaving my office to buy some chocolate...

Mmmm... chocolate...

That statue of Jesus weighs 200lbs, you know.

[Angelika]

@ the oppoponax: Please forgive me for becoming a stumbling block :-P

Jesu: That statue of Jesus weighs 200lbs, you know
I'd be completely satisfied, if I just could have two of them...

[the opoponax]

also, i completely understand the offense of idiots like Donahue about that sculpture.

i'd be pissed, too, if some artist depicted my God as having one of those stupid low ponytails. looks like steven seagal or something...

[ako]

Dear Doris,

I said the words. Nothing happened. Obviously, your words don't work. Do you have any words that do work?

I'm quite interested in learning any magic incantation that will actually summon a deity. I've never seen it happen, but it would be quite impressive.

If it helps, I don't listen to Contemporary Christian Music, more because of the music than the lyrics, although I've never been impressed by the quality of either. Mostly, I listen to straight-up rock and roll.

[Jesurgislac]

Angelika; I'd be completely satisfied, if I just could have two of them...

I think you've just invented the Holy Quartet.

What kind of music do they play?

[Bugmaster]

I'm quite interested in learning any magic incantation that will actually summon a deity.

Hastur Hastur Hastur !

Unfortunately (or, rather, fortunately), the meager powers of the mere human invention that is the Internet are too feeble to properly represent the ineffable glyphs that are Hastur's true name, for they shimmer and twist indescribably even as your mind shatters itself upon their indefatiguable mystery, thrashing in a vain attempt to comprehend. Plus, they're not part of the Unicode standard.

[Bugmaster]

You know what would be really sacrilicious ? Making a statue of Jesus out of wonderfully sinful mint dark chocolate, then slicing communion wafers out of it. The taste would be almost as delicious as the symbolism.

[Jesurgislac]

Only blasphemers and the depraved add mint to chocolate.

Now, dark chocolate with orange, that's divine...