L.B.: Why doctors hate healthy people

Left Behind, pp. 265-268

Have you seen that bit with the offering plate? They pass this thing around in church and people fill it up with money. Clearly, that's what this whole "church" thing is really about. Money. All those priests, pastors, ministers, chaplains, friars, missionaries, etc. -- they're all just in it for the money.

That's one theory, anyway, albeit a ridiculous one I've never heard anyone seriously advocating. But I've heard theories like it. Such theories always tell you much more about the theorists themselves than about the supposed subject of their theories.

If some hypothetical anti-clerical zealot were actually to make the argument above, you would have to conclude one of the following things about them:

1. They might be attacking a straw man they know to be false. Unable or unwilling to engage the reality of what churches actually are, they've decided instead to sketch a ridiculous caricatured version and then attack their own creation as though it were the thing itself. The anti-church critic, in other words, might be a dishonest hack.

2. They might not know any better. Perhaps, somehow, they've never encountered anyone who worked at or even attended a church, and so they have no idea what churches actually do or how or why they do it. In other words, the critic might be well-intentioned but massively ignorant. (At some point, of course, such utter ignorance can only be maintained willfully -- thus ceasing to be well-intentioned.)

3. They might think this is how everything works. They may subscribe to some materialistic grand scheme or ideology (Marxism or laissez-faire anarcho-libertarianism perhaps). or they may be, themselves, primarily driven by this kind of motivation, so they just assume that no one else has any other motive either.

None of these options paints a very favorable picture of our hypothetical critic, but then it would be difficult to imagine any way of favorably viewing anyone who would seriously put forward such a stupid argument.

Which brings us to today's section in Left Behind, wherein we encounter something very similar to the hypothetical critique above. This is a dazzlingly awful passage, almost Bushian in its ability to combine pedantic smugness with a near-total misapprehension of reality. It's a bit like the song "Little Known Facts" in You're a Good Man Charlie Brown -- with LaHaye and Jenkins in the role of Lucy, taking the readers by the hand and, with grating condescension, explaining how snow comes up "out of the ground -- like grass."

Rayford drives to the church to pick up a replacement copy of the ICR video. Chloe tags along because she's afraid to be home alone in case the robbers come back for the rest of Raymie's toys.

The Rev. Bruce Barnes is saddened, but not surprised by the news of the break-in. "It's as if the inner-city has moved to the suburbs," he says.

You know, the "inner-city" -- nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Not that that's a code word or anything. Not at all. And the New Jerusalem will be a glorious suburb.

Rayford leaves the church and becomes a whirlwind of activity:

While they were out, Rayford bought items that needed to be replaced right away, including a TV and VCR. He arranged to have the front door fixed and got the insurance paperwork started.

Because the insurance companies, like the police, aren't busy with anything else. While Rayford attends to all of this, Chloe apparently goes back into the state of suspended animation in which she seems to spend all of her time apart from her father. (Again, she has no job and she's not in school -- what is she doing all day? She's like Carol Brady.)

And then, inevitably, the phone rings. It's Hattie. Rayford tells her about the robbery, and Hattie provides the awkward segue into the heart of this section of the book:

"Things are getting so strange," she said. "You know I have a sister who works in a pregnancy clinic."

"Uh-huh," Rayford said. "You've mentioned it."

"They do family planning and counseling and referrals for terminating pregnancies."

"Right."

"And they're set up to do abortions right there."

Hattie seemed to be waiting for some signal of affirmation or acknowledgment that he was listening. Rayford grew impatient and remained silent.

Hattie apparently listened politely while Rayford told his story, but that was different because it was his story. Hattie mistakenly thinks she's due the same courtesy. Her misunderstanding is all part of that wacky battle of the sexes -- it's just like that book, Women Are From Venus, Men Are From the Planet of Impatient, Misogynist Jackasses.

"Anyway," she said, "I won't keep you. But my sister told me they have zero business."

"Well, that would make sense, given the disappearances of unborn babies."

"My sister didn't sound too happy about that."

"Hattie, I imagine everyone's horrified by that. Parents are grieving all over the world."

There, at last, is the sentence we should have been reading over and over again for the last 250 pages: "Parents are grieving all over the world." Every child on the planet disappeared on page 15 of this book and here, on page 266, is the very first mention of Rachel crying for her children. Oddly though, Rayford's comment doesn't seem to refer to all parents -- just to those of "unborn babies."

"But the women my sister and her people were counseling wanted abortions."

Rayford groped for a pertinent response. "Yes, so maybe those women are grateful they didn't have to go through the abortion itself."

"Maybe, but my sister and her bosses and the rest of the staff are out of work now until people start getting pregnant again."

You can see where they're trying to go here, but what on earth is she talking about?

Hattie's sister works in reproductive health, at a pregnancy clinic. Last Monday, every child on earth disappeared and every pregnant woman on the planet became instantaneously unpregnant. This development raises some rather urgent questions about, you know, the future of the human race. The idea that Hattie's sister and her coworkers would be sitting around idle is inconceivable -- conceivability being the key word here. All of those formerly pregnant women are going to need medical examinations to confirm that the Divine Abortionist didn't create complications. The still unresolved question of future fertility -- for those women, for all women and for all men too -- would need to be explored. Hattie's sister wouldn't be out of work, she'd be working 18-hour shifts.

"... my sister and her bosses and the rest of the staff are out of work now until people start getting pregnant again."

"I get it. It's a money thing."

"They have to work. They have expenses and families."

"And aside from abortion counseling and abortions, they have nothing to do?"

"Nothing. Isn't that awful? I mean, whatever happened put my sister and a lot of people like her out of business, and nobody really knows yet whether anyone will be able to get pregnant again."

I am not up to the task here. I cannot begin to catalog all that is wrong with this bizarre straw-man. Do L&J really think that places like Planned Parenthood "have nothing to do" apart from "abortion counseling and abortions"?

But buckle up, it gets worse, with Rayford rolling his eyes and silently mocking Hattie all along:

Rayford had to admit he had never found Hattie guilty of brilliance, but now he wished he could look into her eyes. "Hattie, um, I don't know how to ask this. But are you saying your sister is hoping women can get pregnant again so they'll need abortions and she can keep working?"

"Well, sure. What is she going to do otherwise? Counseling jobs in other fields are pretty hard to come by, you know."

Wait, didn't we just say that parents are grieving all over the world? I'm thinking the grief counseling centers might be hiring. Then again, those grief counselors are a bunch of evil bastards. It's a money thing. They want there to be more grief just so they can keep working.

The good news, at least, is that those sick monsters running the orphanage industry are out of work too, so maybe now they'll finally stop going around killing parents just so they have work to do.

He nodded, feeling stupid, knowing she couldn't see him. What kind of lunacy was this? He shouldn't waste his energy arguing with someone who clearly didn't have a clue, but he couldn't help himself.

"I guess I always thought clinics like the one where your sister works considered these unwanted pregnancies a nuisance. Shouldn't they be glad if such problems disappear, and even happier -- except for the small complication that the human race will eventually cease to exist -- if pregnancies never happen again?"

Silly Hattie. Silly, foolish, female Hattie just doesn't have a clue. She doesn't realize that the ultimate goal of abortion rights advocates is universal forced sterilization. After all, what else could "pro-choice" possibly mean?

The irony was lost on her. "But Rayford, that's her job. That's what the center is all about. It's sort of like owning a gas station and nobody needs gas or oil or tires anymore."

"Supply and demand."

"Exactly! See? They need unwanted pregnancies because that's their business."

"Sort of like doctors wanting people to be sick or injured so they have something to do?"

"Now you've got it, Rayford."

...

... I ...

...

I give up. If the authors can't be bothered to forge a trail through the twists and turns of their logic here, then I can't be expected to map it out it for them.

Just go back to the beginning of this post and re-read my hypothetical critique of the church. It is, as I said, massively and pervasively inaccurate -- a dismissive straw man that corresponds to nothing in the actual world. Re-read the possible reasons someone might advocate such a theory: intentional dishonesty, ignorance, ideological myopia, projection. (Am I missing something? Are there other possible explanations?)

So, then, two questions: 1) Which of these do you think explains this passage in Left Behind? And 2) Does it really matter?

Comments

[billreeves]

Long time reader, first time commenter.

The episode of Morgan Spurlock's "30 Days" where the pro-choice person went to live in a home for pregnant women (run by a minister) had her go to a talk of some kind, where the speaker also made the point that abortion clinics are in it for the money. I thought it was a goofy point then, and now combined with this Bad Writing... goofy doesn't cover it.

[Dr. Steve]

You know, I am a doctor who has left clinical medicine after merely 8 years. And I must confess that one of the reasons was this straw man characterization of medicine. It is more pervasive than you realize. While it would be exageration for me to say that I faced these kinds of accusations daily or even weekly, I did hear them frequently enough for them to bother me a great deal.
I have no desire for riches. My house if quite plain, my possessions utilitarian, and my car (easily visible to all my patients) is a 2003 compact pick-up truck.
Yet people though nothing of stating or implying that I was acting out of monetary self-interest when I ordered tests, prescibed medications or asked them to come into the office (instead of phoning in prescriptions based on a self-diagnosis).
Again, this was far from the only reason I left, but it definitely played a role.

[Sarah Dylan Breuer]

Astonishing. I'm guessing that LaHaye and Jenkins fall into category #3 -- they think this is the shape of things in the world because they've got a cookie cutter they apply to all of their interactions with people who don't think precisely as they do and all media that don't report their worldview.

[alsafi]

Wow. Just... wow. Thank you again, for reading this and taking it apart so cleanly.

I think the answer to your question may be some of all of the above. And I think it's also tied in with the point you made about the "inner city" vs. the "suburbs", as well; it's a demonization of the "other". Because if you admit that the "other" is a human being with an interior life much like your own, then you have to concede that there might be some doubt that you are perfectly and entirely right about everything, and they are entirely and perfectly wrong. By making Hattie and her sister into morons or monsters, L&J avoid even the outside chance that a more nuanced view might seep in, and render people who believe in a right to abortion (or those who have them) as human beings who have considered their position, and think it is both correct and just. They don't want to deal with that nuance--some of their readers might be interested in hearing those arguments--and so they paint the "other" side as being utterly banal and evil, so as to keep that from happening.

[ohiolibrarian]

The thought processes of LH&J passeth all understanding--or at least they would if 'pro-life' people hadn't been spouting this B.S. forever.

[kevin]

alsafi is dead on. Abortion is evil and so the people who help make abortions possible MUST be evil. Anything else opens the door to the uncomfortable questions about life and choice and society in general that might lead somewhere they don't want their readers to go.

These books are as much about keeping people in the approved lines of thought as they are about story telling. More so, probably.

[Drocket]

Actually, I don't think they're entirely incorrect here. I mean, they ARE, but at the end of the day, abortion providers are human - they need money to eat, pay the rent, etc. If abortions stopped happening, they ARE going to worry about that, and quite rightfully so. It's really no different from when anyone suddenly finds themselves out of a job. Of course, LB is also seriously wrong, because they seem to be determined to believe that abortion providers only exist because of their evil plot to convince women to get abortions. And, of course, they're wrong because, as you say, anyone who thinks reproductive specialists will be out of work under these circumstances is rather stupid.

On the topic that you started the post off with:
I did, at one point, attend a church that ultimately seemed to revolve around money. It didn't really start out that way, but over time, as the church grew, the pastor became - let's just say 'ambitious' - as to what the church should be. There just kept being more and more 'special collections.' Not really for helping people, either (natural disasters, people with health problems, whatever - those are entirely understandable), but for the church itself - we're going to build a new library! We're going to build a new, bigger steeple! We're going to buy new pews! The point where it really got to me is when he started preaching about the importance of tithing. Not just preaching it now and then - every other week. I didn't really have the words to explain it, at the time, but I realized that there was a *serious problem* in that church, and stopped attending. And I'm not even going to get into the mega-church phenomena...

It would, though, be extremely stupid to say that religion itself exists only to make a profit, which I think is your point.

[Jos]

It can't be 3. People who work at abortion clinics are, pretty much by definition, not RTCs. Therefore, they cannot possibly be like L&J and their motivations do not resemble L&J's in the slightest.

At least, that's what L&J probably tell themselves.

I sometimes suspect that in the truly wacky fundamentalist mind an incredibly solid wall disconnects their own beliefs from what they actually do in reality.

And that's the charitable explanation, I think.

Personally, in this case, I'm thinking a weird and disturbing cocktail of options 1 and 2.

[Laura]

There are definitely some religious cults whose purpose is money and power and there are probably shady unlicensed abortion practitioners who only do abortions and are in it for the money, but it is insane to suggest that all (or even many) churches and family planning clinics exist to enrich themselves.

I think these authors wish to ascribe the worst of motives to anything they condemn because it makes them more comfortable.

[histrogeek]

The "abortion industry" red herring has been around for awhile, longer than I suspected since Left Behind was written (for lack of a better word) in the early 90s. Clearly the passage was put here for the express purpose of grinding axes. There are any number of actual industries, benevolent, benign, and evil, that Hattie's sister could have been in that would be affected by the Rapture, but they had to make her an abortion counsellor.
Even that they can't get their actual description right since they mention family planning not realizing that we heathen fornicators will still want contraception. So the unnamed sister will still have work to do even if the glamorous world of abortion is closed to them for now.

[Hibryd]

It's like the penultimate Left Behind passage:
1) Characters are all unlikable, as even the "good" Rayford behaves like a jerk.
2) Villains are comical, as they twist their waxed mustaches and say "No babies left to abort? You win this round, God, but I'll be back!"
3) Situations are consequences are totally unfounded in reality, as the only freaking people out of work are abortion workers who are mourning their unemployment rather than any children they may have lost themselves.
4) Straw-man destruction and scare-mongering substitutes for any teaching about Jesus' messages regarding love, forgiveness, or taking care of others.
And of course: 5) Conversation substitutes for actual action, and takes place over the phone.

[alsafi]

Not to nitpick (she says, nitpicking), but penultimate means "next to the last" or "one below the ultimate". I only say 'cos I read your comment and went "whuh?" a couple times before I understood it.

Then it made me laugh, so that's all good.

[Redem]

That sequence should be consider a classic!

(well I guess it's better to have them say they are doing it for the money than doing it for fun)

[L]

Drocket says, I mean, they ARE, but at the end of the day, abortion providers are human - they need money to eat, pay the rent, etc. If abortions stopped happening, they ARE going to worry about that, and quite rightfully so. It's really no different from when anyone suddenly finds themselves out of a job.

No, this is dead wrong. There are no doctors who just perform abortions. The "abortion doctor" is an invention of the nutcase wing of the pro-life movement. These doctors provide a range of prenatal services. If they work at the kind of place women might turn to in the event of an unwanted pregnancy they might perform more of them than a average OB/GYN would, but it's hardly the sum total of their professions. These people would all be extremely busy for all the reasons Fred gave.

I'm pro-life myself, but there's no need to build strawmen.

[Ken]

Writing exercise for LH&J: Write a story where there are no telephones.

That aside, just WHY would Hattie the Hottie phone Rayford LaHaye Steele about THIS particular subject right then? Is this part of the End Time Prophecy checklist or something?

[Constantine]

The phrase Hibryd is searching for is "Platonic ideal of Left Behind passages"

[Constantine]

... except that there didn't seem to be any travel logistics involved in that passage.

[Thlayli]

I guess it's better to have them say they are doing it for the money than doing it for fun

Snowman: "Explain to me again why we're doing this?"

Bandit: "For the money, for the glory, and for the fun. Mostly for the money."

-- Smokey and the Bandit

[Hibryd]

Ooh, wrong word choice and no travel logistics... I embarrassed myself on two counts. Sorry.

Of course, L&J have never actually been inside a Planned Parenthood clinic. The RTC's all stand outside the gate to pray. So how would they know what goes on?

[Sagra]

No doubt the first few thousand "unwanted" pregnancies would turn into a winning lottery ticket for the moms. Supply and demand would affects all markets, including the black market for infants. I don't think there will be any abortions for quite a while.

[Richard Hershberger]

I can understand why someone might think that churches are in it just for the money: some of them are. It's not as if hucksters never disguise themselves in clerical clothing. And in modern America some of these are very visible on television. So for someone who isn't particularly interested in religion beyond pausing briefly while channel surfing to watch the guy with the bad suit and overdone hair calling for people to send him money, it's an easy impression to make.

If this person is intelligent and honest, he will know that he hasn't studied the question and will take his impression as just that. He certainly won't go bloviating on the subject based on a mere impression. So this isn't the basis for a serious argument. But the idea is out there, and not merely among the stupid or dishonest.

[jody]

Wow. Think of all the people who grow up WANTING to perform abortions. For the money. Yeah, cuz lots of doctors want to put themselves through medical school JUST to perform abortions.
"Hello, I am an Abortion Specialist. I am not qualified to do any other medical procedure. Not even routine surgeries or treatments. Give me your money and your baby."
As if those out-of-work doctors can't tend to the wounded now. Guess they'll take out that retirement plan and sit on their laurels.

[85% Duane]

I have no desire for riches. My house if quite plain, my possessions utilitarian, and my car (easily visible to all my patients) is a 2003 compact pick-up truck.

Sounds like yer the exception to the rule, Dr. Steve. If you'd like, I can take you around to the "Doctor's Only" parking lots at hospitals and practices around here and we can check out the rows and rows of very expensive cars.

[grenadine]

i think this is first excerpt from LB that actually made me sick. talk about bad faith.

"oh, no! no more pregnant women! how shall i provide for my family? wait, as an abortion provider, i am an evil cretin incapable of human love! i don't even have a family! hell, as a pro-choicer, I aborted every fetus I concieved! gotta put food on the table, people. gotta carry out Nicky Cascade's plan! But how?

"Hey, an unguarded house full of children's toys! helloooo, new career!"

i imagine that's what LaJenk think went on in Hattie's sister's head.

[grenadine]

i know several docs, and my impression is that a lot of the conspicuous consumption they do is the result of people's expectations. that is to say, if a doctor drives a clunker, he must be a bad doctor.

it's not logical, but that's humans for you.

[Jesurgislac]

85% Duane: My brother's a doctor. He rides to work on a very expensive 10-speed bicycle. He doesn't own a car.

Sagra: No doubt the first few thousand "unwanted" pregnancies would turn into a winning lottery ticket for the moms. Supply and demand would affects all markets, including the black market for infants. I don't think there will be any abortions for quite a while.

Are you being ironic, or is this a perfect example of someone who can read Fred's posts and Just Not Get It?

[ako]

When I was in high school and college, my state passed a women's health iniative offering, among other things, free gynecological exams and free birth control to low-income women and girls. And it was based on individual income, not family income, so anyone who couldn't, or wouldn't pry open the parental/husbandly purse strings could still get regular exams.

Guess what clinics were willing to take patients based on nothing but a one-page "statement of income" form, and deal with all the reimbursement paperwork, assuming all risk of not being compensated due to a lying patient or bureaucratic snafus? Planned Parenthood.

Guess what clinic would allow patients who weren't paying for their treatment a generous selection of walk-in times, as well as a chance to schedule appointments, so someone could walk in off the street whenever it suited them and see a doctor possibly within twenty minutes? Planned Parenthood.

Guess what clinic made a point of informing high school and college girls so they'd all know how to get contraception and gynecological exams if they had no money, or seek treatment for STDS even if they were too embaressed to ask their parents to arrange a doctor's appointment? Planned Parenthood.

Guess what clinic provided hundreds of teenage girls and low-income women with a selection of free birth control methods, as well as counseling and information on the risks and benefits of each method, thereby preventing who knows how many abortions? Planned Parenthood.

And the private gynecologist in my town who publically advertized that he provided abortions presented himself as precisely that, a gynecologist in a small private clinic, who provided abortions, not someone running an abortion clinic. In fact, he was equally willing to solicit business for Pap smears, treating endomitriosis, and (gasp!) pre-natal care. I never went to that clinic (I was getting the free annual exams at Planned Parenthood), but as far as I could tell, he didn't exclusively attract women looking for abortions.

So even if the gap between the massive baby disappearance and the first reported pregnancy was long enough to get past the legions of women wanting to be checked up on in response to an emergency, the employees of most "abortion clinics" would have plenty to do. And the employees of any bizarre hypothetical clinic that was all abortions and nothing else would likely have some concern for the loss of their job, but relatively little. Especially since at least some Real True Christians (TM) would be in medicine, leaving vacancies.

I vote option one. These books, first and foremost, are propaganda (if exceptionally crap propaganda), designed to sell certain ideas about the world. And either they haven't grasped how transparent a lie this is, or (depressingly) have an accurate grasp of how unlikely the majority of their readers are to have the personal experience or critical thinking skills to contradict these assertions.

[Randy Owens]

Addendum to the list of reasons:

4. Sarcasm and/or irony; playing devil's advocate.

Not that there's any reason to think that that's what LH&J are up to here, but I think it'd be the most likely explanation for someone arguing along those lines of the church being in it just for the money.

Thlayli:

I guess it's better to have them say they are doing it for the money than doing it for fun

Snowman: "Explain to me again why we're doing this?"

Bandit: "For the money, for the glory, and for the fun. Mostly for the money."

-- Smokey and the Bandit

I beg to differ:

Barf: "I know we need the money, but..."

Lone Starr: "Listen! We're not just doing this for money... We're doing it for a SHIT LOAD of money!"

-- Spaceballs: The Movie

[Selcaby]

I'm trying to imagine how I would feel, as a worker in the IT industry, if all the world's computers were suddenly raptured up to silicon heaven, destroying all demand for my work as well as my ability to do it. In one sense I'm in my job for the money, in that it isn't my life's consuming passion and I don't have any strong moral sense that somebody needs to do it. On the other hand, I do enjoy it and it isn't making me rich. I'd be waiting impatiently for people to start making more computers, but for all sorts of reasons - I'd be itching to get back in touch with my online friends, read blogs, look at my archive of digital photos, listen to my MP3s, and have a good game of Tetris. I wouldn't be moaning about how I'd lost my livelihood, because assuming the economy survived at all, thousands of offices forced back into the era of paper and filing cabinets would be crying out for manpower.

Abortionists only have one more reason to regret the disappearance of the world's children than everybody else has.

[baf]

Explanation 3 (assuming everyone else thinks like you) doesn't seem like a very good model for this particular episode, but I've definitely seen it in operation elsewhere in the rhetoric of the religious right. Just look at any screed about the homosexual agenda and tell me if it isn't nearly all projection.

[Jonathan Edelstein]

Re-read the possible reasons someone might advocate such a theory: intentional dishonesty, ignorance, ideological myopia, projection. (Am I missing something? Are there other possible explanations?)

Generalization. A person might encounter a church where it is all about the money, or at least appears that way based on how he is treated, and become sufficiently disillusioned never to seek out the churches where it isn't.

I'm speaking from my own lessons-learned file here. When I was 17 and first living on my own, I briefly attended a few synagogues and was struck by the high status given to big donors, the red-carpet treatment given to potential big donors and the contrasting, don't-care-if-we-see-you-twice attitude toward obviously low-income visitors. It took me several years to realize that this mindset was a function of the particular suburb where the synagogues were located rather than synagogues in general, and that religious leaders can do evil for reasons that have nothing to do with money. (And also a great deal of good, but I study global conflicts, and the role of religious figures in such situations is more often negative than otherwise.)

I suppose that generalization might be considered a subset of ignorance, and it's certainly an ignorant act to generalize as I did rather than seeking more complete data. It's a distinct subset, though.

[bc]

Actually, this is an example of L&J's misognomy - they couldn't care less if there are complications from the unborn baby rapture to the still here on earth women. I don't think they really know (or care)about women at all. Take Hattie, Irene, and Chloe and tell me if they are at all representative of women in real life. The men they can get - after all, Rayford and Buck are their alter egos. The women, they haven't a clue.

[Jonathan Edelstein]

Re-read the possible reasons someone might advocate such a theory: intentional dishonesty, ignorance, ideological myopia, projection. (Am I missing something? Are there other possible explanations?)

Generalization. A person might encounter a church where it is all about the money, or at least appears that way based on how he is treated, and become sufficiently disillusioned never to seek out the churches where it isn't.

I'm speaking from my own lessons-learned file here. When I was 17 and first living on my own, I briefly attended a few synagogues and was struck by the high status given to big donors, the red-carpet treatment given to potential big donors and the contrasting, don't-care-if-we-see-you-twice attitude toward obviously low-income visitors. It took me several years to realize that this mindset was a function of the particular suburb where the synagogues were located rather than synagogues in general, and that religious leaders can do evil for reasons that have nothing to do with money. (And also a great deal of good, but I study global conflicts, and the role of religious figures in such situations is more often negative than otherwise.)

I suppose that generalization might be considered a subset of ignorance, and it's certainly an ignorant act to generalize as I did rather than seeking more complete data. It's a distinct subset, though.

[Keely Rew]

Actually, this is an example of L&J's misognomy - they couldn't care less if there are complications from the unborn baby rapture to the still here on earth women.

They hate gnomes, too? (I kid, I kid.) Right on the money, to use an unfortunate phrase. And I have to agree with everyone else pointing out the strawman of "the Abortionist"--I go to Planned Parenthood for all my gynecological needs and most of my contraceptives. They are always busy treating women and men with all kinds of sexual health needs.

[Mad Latinist]

THis passage eally boils down to a point you have made over and over again: the only time children ever matter in LB is when it's to make a political point.

It kind of disturbs me that someone would pretend to care so much for fetuses and yet have absolutely no interest in actual children. It's like the old joke about life beginning at conception and ending at delivery.

[ako]

Why do Lehaye and Jenkins hate Pap smears? ;-)

[Jesurgislac]

Fred: Re-read the possible reasons someone might advocate such a theory: intentional dishonesty, ignorance, ideological myopia, projection. (Am I missing something? Are there other possible explanations?)

Well, just recently, SCOTUS declared the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act constitutional. What this means is not that late-term abortions have been banned: it doesn't mean any abortions have been banned. It means that a procedure which has been developed as the safest method to carry out a late-term abortion (or any abortion where the fetus's skull is too large to pass the woman's cervix intact) has been banned: doctors will have to use a less-safe method instead. Some women will die as a result, and more women will have their cervix permanently damaged, meaning that they cannot have any more children.

Pro-lifers who claim that their cause is all about saving babies and not at all about hating women should have been the foremost opponents of this bill. But, as far as I can see without exception, they praised it and rejoiced at the Supreme Court's decision.

Anyone who claims to be pro-life and who rejoices about this law being declared constitutional is declaring that either they have no idea what this law does, never having bothered to acquaint themselves with the necessary information: or they do know, and the rejoicing is because they want women who need abortions to suffer and die, and they don't care that their celebrations reveal for anyone to see who cares that their claimed justifications for opposing abortion were all lies.

Why? Same questions as you ask of the LB authors, but with real-time urgency.

So, then, two questions: 1) Which of these do you think explains this passage in Left Behind? And 2) Does it really matter?

I think it's all four, to varying degrees. There is ignorance, but there is also intentional dishonesty - the degree of spin and fact-skewing, repeated from pro-lifer to pro-lifer, quoted and misquoted, would not be possible if any of them had the saving grace of honesty and thought "I will look up the facts, and go by the facts, not by what this pro-life website is feeding me". And ideological myopia - the rock-solid belief that women are wicked and want to have abortions for the fun of it. And projection - as the opoponax pointed out in an earlier thread, many pro-lifers tend to refer to people who are pro-choice as "pro-abortion", and make arguments based on the notion that people who are "pro-abortion" want women to have abortions: they believe that what we want is to control women's bodies, just like they do, only they want to force women to stay pregnant and give birth, so we must want the opposite: they cannot conceive of people who don't want to force women, who want women to have the right to choose.

The use of language is a powerful tool. Refer to a doctor as an "abortionist" and it becomes hard to remember - deliberately difficult - that the doctor will do a shedload of other things by definition than just perform abortions. Refer to women's health clinics as "abortion clinics" and it becomes hard to remember that they do zillions of other things, too. Refer to IDX as "partial birth abortion" and - judging by Kennedy's arguments - it becomes very hard to understand why IDX is the safest procedure possible in some circumstances, and that banning it for its gruesomeness won't stop a woman from getting an abortion: just decrease her chances of getting one safely.

[Erick Oppeen]

One thing that I don't think has been brought up yet in comments about the Magically Disappearing Fetuses/Pre-Born Bay-beez, is the number of ex-mothers-to-be who'd be freaking out worse than the ones whose children had already been born when Gawd decided to grab them all.

I've known women who were unhappy about being pregnant, or who knew the baby was going to come out bad, who'd consider the Divine Abortionist to be like the cavalry riding to the rescue...but what about the ones who were absolutely delighted to be pregnant, who now have this horrible, inexplicable disappointment to deal with? I've known (or known of) women who absolutely went to pieces after miscarriages.

After the Ratpure (misspelling entirely deliberate on my part) the women who'd been ecstatic to be pregnant, maybe after years and years of trying and dropping hundreds of thousands of dollars on expensive fertility clinics would be all but insane. And I wouldn't want to be the Real True Christian who told them that Gawd had taken their baby-to-be. Mr. RTC (and it would almost certainly be a man) would soon be the answer to "What's red, scattered all over the room, and dripping off the walls and ceiling?"

As far as churches being "in it for the money" goes---it depends largely on which church(es) you're talking about. Although I'm a happy atheist, I have a lot of real respect for honest clergymen---it's a gruelling job and doesn't pay terribly well, and you're under a lot of pressure to be, and have your family be, an example of perfect Christianity. At the same time, people like Jim and Tammy Bakker, Oral Roberts and Jimmy Swaggert did the image of all churches a lot of real damage. They were all about the money, and tailored their appeals to prey on vulnerable, emotionally needy, not-terribly-bright-or-worldly old people, which, IMNSHO, is worse than targeting advertising at children. Children at least have parents whose job it is to say "No!"

[Dan]

Along with the End-Times checklist, L&J seemed to have a list of people they wanted to bash throughout the book. These kind of conversations and details kept popping into the book, and each time you could picture LaHaye saying "we need to get back at ____ because they said those awful things about our eschatology, so let's put them in a paragraph." About the only fun for me as I read this book was the "guess who L&J are paying back here" game. Like their anti-Catholic sections, in which that "New Pope who was disliked for introducing changes" who was then raptured, much to the chagrin of the rest of the Catholic Church. So the whole purpose of this section is to prove what evil ungodly people abortion providers are. Horrifyingly, it's probably meant as a teachable moment for all of us not sold on their view of the issue.

[Painini]

Another point jumped right out of that conversation: Women want to have abortions, but it's people who get pregnant.

I don't think I need to explain the implications of the distinction. Good thing, too, 'cause I think I need a frickin' cigarette now.

[emjaybee]

"Women Are From Venus, Men Are From the Planet of Impatient, Misogynist Jackasses."

((hearts Fred))

Honestly, if God wants to save all the innocent fetus at the rapture till the end times, he should just take all women's eggs too, so no conceptions could ever happen until Jesus came back. That'd show those nasty abortionists! And also, would at least seem a somewhat moral act; why are fetuses lucky enough to hitch a ride on the Rapture train more worthy than those conceived after, who presumably will be subject to all the Tribulation horrors?

Did he take the embryos at fertility clinics, too? Sheesh.

[Mad Latinist]

Oh please, Erick. Any women who weren't raptured wouldn't be the sort to care about their babies. Duh ;)

[Sue W]

...Rayford bought items that needed to be replaced right away, including a TV and VCR.

It's good to see that Rayford hasn't let the End of the World disrupt his priorities.

[Mnemosyne]

Refer to women's health clinics as "abortion clinics" and it becomes hard to remember that they do zillions of other things, too.

Which is probably why there was a group of stupid people protesting outside the Planned Parenthood Express storefront -- you know, the one where they just do birth control and pelvic exams, and NO ABORTIONS WHATSOEVER!?!?!?

I came closer to flipping off a group of little old ladies that day than I ever have before in my life.

[Rosina]

..Rayford bought items that needed to be replaced right away, including a TV and VCR.

It's good to see that Rayford hasn't let the End of the World disrupt his priorities.

Of course they are priorities - he needs them to watch the Magic Video he gets from Bruce Barnes.

[George]

Slightly OT:

> ... if all the world's computers were suddenly raptured up to silicon heaven ...

I know at least one that would definitely be 'left behind'.

[cjmr's husband]

"No such thing as Silicon Heaven? But where would all the calculators go?"

-Kryten

[Daniel Martin]

Am I the only who read this, agreed with essentially everything, and then thought "Well, ok, but day care providers really would be totally SOL post-Rapture" ?

[Darkrose]

> ... if all the world's computers were suddenly raptured up to silicon heaven ...

I know at least one that would definitely be 'left behind'.

It might settle the OS wars once and for all, though.