Prayer

Got this link in an e-mail a while back from Keith I.: "When religion and politics go horribly awry."

It seems that Dr. Wiley S. Drake, pastor of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., ...

Wait. Take a moment to savor that name. Wiley S. Drake. It practically writes its own Flannery O'Connor short story.

It seems that Dr. Wiley S. Drake, pastor of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., issued a political endorsement (Huckabee in '08!) on church letterhead. That's something that tax-exempt churches are not allowed to do, which the watchdog group Americans United for the Separation of Church and State pointed out in a complaint to the IRS.

Drake responded by asking his followers to pray for the deaths of the leaders of Americans United.

No, really.

Here's the Los Angeles Times account, which ought to have been titled "Radical cleric declares fatwa":

Wiley S. Drake, a Buena Park pastor and a former national leader of the Southern Baptist Convention, called on his followers to pray for the deaths of two leaders of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

The request was in response to the liberal group's urging the IRS on Tuesday to investigate Drake's church's nonprofit status because Drake endorsed former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee for president on church letterhead and during a church-affiliated Internet radio show.

Drake said Wednesday he was "simply doing what God told me to do" by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the "enemies of God."

"God says to pray imprecatory prayer against people who attack God's church," he said. "The Bible says that if anybody attacks God's people, David said this is what will happen to them. ... Children will become orphans and wives will become widows."

Imprecatory prayers are alternately defined as praying for someone's misfortune, or an appeal to God for justice.

Drake says his use of church letterhead wasn't meant to imply an official church endorsement, but his understanding of the separation of church and state is, at best, sorely confused.

"I don't believe in the separation of church and state and I believe the IRS should stay out of church business."

Huh? Which is it? It can't be both. (Drake also doesn't seem to understand that "I don't believe in the separation of church and state" explicitly and unavoidably means "I am not a Baptist.")

Drake's defense of his idea of "imprecatory prayer" is also confused and confusing. He cites David's imprecatory psalms as an example of God's instructions for the church. (I wonder if Drake also thinks David's psalms of doubt and despair should be treated as examples to be imitated.) Treating David's political kingdom of Israel and the Christian church as identical is probably the root of some of Drake's confusion about church and state.

I don't think poor Wiley really wants to be going down this route. He claims to believe in the efficacy of prayer. If you really believe that, then "Lord, don't have mercy" seems like a very dangerous thing to pray.

Then again, if the first epistle of John is to be believed, then what Wiley is doing cannot even be called prayer.

But wait, it gets worse. Not only does Wiley think of prayer as a weapon, he also has bad aim. As Steve Benen notes at The Carpetbagger Report:

Here’s the rub: Drake asked his followers to “target Joe Conn or Jeremy Learing.” Except, Jeremy’s last name is “Leaming.”

So, here’s the theological question of the day: if a bunch of people pray for God to punish some guy named “Jeremy Learing,” who had nothing to do with this incident, does it still count?

Normally, I would answer that question by telling you what Christians believe about prayer, but since Wiley and his Gang That Can't Pray Straight seem to subscribe to some idiosyncratic beliefs about prayer, I can only speculate what this might mean for them. Non-Wileyite Christians believe that God knows what we mean when we pray, even if we are unable to articulate it. (This is one of the things that distinguishes prayer from spellcasting and incantation: You don't have to get the words right.) So, for example, if we get confused and ask God to comfort James Johnson over the loss of his wife, when it was actually Mrs. John Jameson who died, we think God is smart enough to figure out what we meant. We're also bound to figure it out for ourselves when we arrive at the Johnson house to check on Jim. And we will be going to visit Jim because real prayer requires us to act as well as to ask. The Wileyites don't seem to share this belief. They seem to think that prayer is wholly unconnected to action. Considering what they're praying for, of course, this is probably a good thing. I'm also not sure that the Wileyites understand that prayer and spellcasting are not the same thing, so at this point they're probably worried that the oblivious and innocent Jeremy Learing is is mortal peril.

I'd love to see Mr. Learing file a lawsuit against Wiley and his church. All they'd need to do to defend themselves would be to explain that they don't really believe in the efficacy of prayer.

The efficacy of prayer, oddly, was also a topic put to the candidates in a recent presidential debate. That's weird and inappropriate to begin with, but it's even stranger when you realize that this debate was held at 10:30 on a Sunday morning. Someone apparently skipped church in order to quiz Sens. Joe Biden and Mike Gravel about theological questions. You have to wonder what's next in these debates -- questions about consubstantiation vs. transubstantiation? "Sword drills"?

Melissa McEwan posted the transcript of this bizarre interlude at Shakesville (plus the video). Here's the actual question, sent via e-mail from a man in Utah:

"My question is to understand each candidates' view of a personal God. Do they believe that, through the power of prayer, disasters like Hurricane Katrina or the Minnesota bridge collapse could have been prevented or lessened?"

I'm not sure what the guy from Utah wanted candidates to say -- "Forget the Army Corps of Engineers, I'll send the Trappists in to buttress those levees!" -- but several of the candidates responded well. John Edwards and Biden both sounded a pastoral note, citing their own histories of personal tragedy and countering the harmful notion that such tragedies are your fault because you didn't pray hard enough. Their answers played this pastoral role both for the victims of the tragedies the questioner mentioned, and for the questioner himself -- despite the fact that he as much as stated that he was pIaying political gotcha games involving some notion of a litmus test for Real True Christianity. Their answers were honest and empathetic (Biden looked more human than usual), and they were exactly the kind of answers that would have been appropriate had this question been raised during a Wednesday night Bible study

But, of course, this wasn't a Wednesday night Bible study. This was a debate for the secular office of president of the United States. So while their answers were straightforward responses to the question, that didn't make the question any less strange or inappropriate.

Melissa notes that only Gravel and Sen. Barack Obama pointed out that failed levees and a bridge collapse are matters of public policy, and not primarily the product of the ineffable and inscrutable will of God. Obama's answer was pretty good:

OBAMA: I believe in the power of prayer. And part of what I believe in is that, through prayer, not only can we strengthen ourselves in adversity, but that we can also find the empathy and the compassion and the will to deal with the problems that we do control. Most of the issues that we're debating here today are ones that we have the power to change. We don't have the power to prevent illness in all cases, but we do have the power to make sure that every child gets a regular checkup and isn't going to the emergency room for treatable illnesses like asthma. We may not have the power to prevent a hurricane, but we do have the power to make sure that the levees are properly reinforced and we've got a sound emergency plan. And so, part of what I pray for is the strength and the wisdom to be able to act on those things that I can control. And that's what I think has been lacking sometimes in our government. We've got to express those values through our government, not just through our religious institutions.

That's good politics and good theology. "The problems that we do control" is straight out of Niebuhr.

Obama also inverts the question -- kind of a Jesus-y thing to do. Instead of dealing with the question about whether or not we should believe in God, Obama's answer had to do with whether or not God should believe in us. Better question.

Comments

[Jesurgislac]

There was an incident on livejournal a ouple of years ago: a journaller wrote (jokingly) that if she believed in the power of prayer, she'd pray for George W. Bush to get cancer and die. (Or something like that.)

Some asshole reported her journal post to the Secret Service, who showed up at her house for a face-to-face interview, scaring the bejasus out of her mom (she was a student, still living at home, and two Men In Black showed up saying her daughter had made a threat against the President's life and they wanted to speak to her now, please: shades of "Becoming", Buffy).

What struck me about it was: no actual threat was made. The journaller didn't even say she'd make Bush "catch cancer and die". She just said she'd pray for Bush to get cancer: and in a context in which it was clear that (a) she was joking (b) she didn't believe in the power of prayer.

I understand that, even if a threat is plainly made as a joke, the Secret Service are required to follow it up. But if a non threat is made as a joke?

I concluded that the Secret Service is required to believe in the efficacy of prayer...

[cjmr's husband]

That's faith-based government policies for you.

[JPL]

In response to these "imprecatory prayers", Americans United for the Separation of Church and State issued a press release stating "Avada Kevadra".

[the opoponax]

except, of course, it failed, due to a typo.

[LL]

I know prayer doesn't work (the way the simple-minded think it does) because if it did, there would be no unintended pregnancies (and thus few or no abortions) and everyone would get into their first-choice college. And there would probably be a lot more people getting hit by buses soon after dumping a significant other.

Even a skeptical old atheist such as myself knows that religion is not a vending machine, where you put in your coins and your fondest wish comes tumbling down towards you like that Butterfinger or package of powdered sugar donuts.

[85% Duane]

It seems that Dr. Wiley S. Drake, pastor of the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park, Calif., issued a political endorsement (Huckabee in '08!) on church letterhead.

Some may recall when I predicted in the Election Thread that pastors would begin urging their parishioners to get behind Huckabee. Huckabee finished second, I think, in the recent Iowa straw polls. Won't be long now..

[85% Duane]

Drake said Wednesday he was "simply doing what God told me to do" by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the "enemies of God."

See, here's how the God racket works: You do a little something for God now, like endorsing his favorite candidate on church letterhead or ya know, whatever, then later when you need a favor, maybe someone whacked, whatever, God remembers the favor and bada bing bada boom, problem solved.

I call it "God as Mob Boss" theology.

[Majromax]

Even a skeptical old atheist such as myself knows that religion is not a vending machine, where you put in your coins and your fondest wish comes tumbling down towards you like that Butterfinger or package of powdered sugar donuts.

No, but perhaps it's like that vending machine where you put your money in, and the package of powdered sugar doughnuts gets stuck on the ring. Then, you try to beat the machine into submission, bruise your hand, and finally give up.

[85% Duane]

"Sword drills"?

If they ever use Sword Drills to pick Presidents, I am so running.

[85% Duane]

No, but perhaps it's like that vending machine where you put your money in, and the package of powdered sugar doughnuts gets stuck on the ring. Then, you try to beat the machine into submission, bruise your hand, and finally give up.

Then someone else puts their money in and gets TWO packages of powdered donuts and thanks God for the small blessing.

[Richard Crawford]

@LL: "Religion is not a vending machine". I like that. I may borrow it.

[NonyNony]

This whole affair reminded me (somewhat bizzarely, I suppose) of the comic book writer Grant Morrison entreating the readers of his comic "The Invisibles" to help him with a bit of magic to keep the book from getting cancelled. There was a particular sigil that everyone was supposed to visualize while having sex - either alone or with a partner IIRC.

That's what this whole story sounded like to me when I first heard it - a magician asking a group of people to help him cast a magic curse onto an opponent. I mean, historically there's not much difference between "magic spells" and "prayer" ("magic invocations" are what people of other religions ask their dark gods to do for them, "prayer" is when you ask YOUR god to do something), but I thought Christianity had outgrown the whole idea of "prayer as magic spell" sometime during the Enlightenment.[*] I guess not.

[*] Except, of course, for some of the ritual of the Roman Catholic Church (which is perpetually stuck in a pre-Enlightenment belief system in many ways). What is the whole miracle of transubstantiation, after all, but asking God to perform a miracle on the spot in the middle of mass, turning wine to blood and bread to flesh? As a young Catholic it struck me as a bit presumptuous that we'd go and ask God to do this miracle for us every single Sunday, making it into something really mundane in the grand scheme of things.

If they ever use Sword Drills to pick Presidents, I am so running.

I, on the other hand, will be voting for the guy with the foresight to bring a real sword to the drill...

[hapax]

If they ever use Sword Drills to pick Presidents, I am so running.

I, on the other hand, will be voting for the guy with the foresight to bring a real sword to the drill...

My daughter proposed last election that they replace the current debate format with a three-tiered system of spelling bee, bake-off, and episode of Dance Dance Revolution.

[indifferent children]

> I call it "God as Mob Boss" theology.

"Passing the collection plate" is now to be called "paying 'protection' money to the Big Don in the sky."

[Geds]

Dangit. That explains why I keep getting the crap beaten out of me by reasonably polite but obviously judgmental people.

The Baptist protection racket is effective these days...

[mmack]

Fred,

I'm not up on the Southern Baptist Church, but I take it that they read the Bible and believe it's the "inerrant Word of God", correct?

So did Pastor Wiley skip Exodus 20:2 - 17? I mean, especially 20:13? I figured God was pretty straightforward on that one.

Or does he take his theology lessons from Matt Groening?

The Lord is vengeful. Oh Spiteful One,
Show me who to smite, and he shall be smoten!

[rev]

Man, guys like Drake drive me nuts! He and his ilk are why I'm always quick to emphasize that I'm an American Baptist, which of course most people have never heard of.

Just read a novel wherein a character was wearing a t-shirt that read "I'm not THAT kind of Baptist!"

This story just reinforces my idea to get such a shirt for myself and a few to give away...

Thanks, Fred, for again pointing out what should be so clear: the Southern Baptist church long ago ceased to be Baptist.

[wintermute]

Ah, but it's thou shalt not kill. Nothing in there about I shalt not kill. Asking god to kill people doesn't go against the Big Ten; it's only a sin if you cut out the middleman and do it yourself.

[mmack]

Wintermute,

I can only hope God tells Pastor Wiley "Hell No! Do your own damned dirty work and keep me out of this!"

[Joshua]

AGH, SWORD DRILLS! Thank you so much for reminding me about those, Fred.

...

Yeah, that was sarcasm, by the way.

[Spalanzani]

I read the link for "sword drills", and that just might be the creepiest damn thing I've read in a long, long time...

[LL]

RE "I like that. I may borrow it." - Go for it. I can't remember if it's an original thought or if I read it somewhere and forgot where.

RE "My daughter proposed last election that they replace the current debate format with a three-tiered system of spelling bee, bake-off, and episode of Dance Dance Revolution." - That would be AWESOME.

[rev]

RE "sword drills": "...make it clearer who won." Because, of course, that is the whole point of this Christianity thing - I win and you lose and go to hell, ha ha ha ha ha! If you do not believe this lie is true, ask the blind man, he saw it too. Or you can always ask L/J of course.

I agree: "spelling bee, bake-off and Dance Revolution" would be awesome.

Although, given the state of oration emanating from the Current Occupant(TM Garrison Keillor), how about instead of spelling bee, one of the tiers is Improv Olympics? Think about it - a president who could actually think on her feet and, I don't know, enunciate properly for an entire, clear effing sentence. Or even just a voice that doesn't make you shiver just hearing it.
Sorry, tmi?

[patter]

spelling bee, bake-off, and episode of Dance Dance Revolution

My money would be on Obama. I'll bet he bakes a mean cookie.

[Lea]

It practically writes its own Flannery O'Connor short story.

I love this.

[not someone else]

Really? I think the sword drills are cute, at least in the context of teaching kids to actually read their little book. Maybe that's another indication that I should never have children.

I mean, historically there's not much difference between "magic spells" and "prayer" ("magic invocations" are what people of other religions ask their dark gods to do for them, "prayer" is when you ask YOUR god to do something),

Hey, some of us are at least honest about it, now. :3

[Bro Maynard]

O, Lord, in Thy mercy, hearken not unto Wylie D Rake, but cause his pomegranates to wither. No, wait, sorry, wrong guy; send that sad Pharisee Wile E. Straked into the path of an incontinent camel. Uh, hold on just a sec -- I mean, pursue Willy the Snake to the hills with a legion of sex-mad baboons. [Courtesy of Curse Generator...thanks, guys!]

O Mighty Smiter, please cancel all the above, and just smack the whole looney lot of SBC's with a good case of poison ivy. You're bound to get more than a few who deserve it.

[A Texan in Bavaria]

I owned at Sword Drill. I'm ethnically Texas (Southern) Baptist, but split in college, in part due to the whole separation of church and state tradition that the faith of my fathers seem to have put behind them.

Hey, any other GA's in the house? I somehow missed my Year 4 badge, but got all the others. RA's?

Girls in Action, Girls in Action,
Missions studies and missions action!
Praying, giving money so
The world may know of Jesus' love!

Girls in Action, Girls in Action,
Girls in Action now!

[Raka]

NonyNony: I, on the other hand, will be voting for the guy with the foresight to bring a real sword to the drill...

Never bring a sword to a bible fight.

[Raka]

LL: I know prayer doesn't work (the way the simple-minded think it does) because if it did, there would be no unintended pregnancies (and thus few or no abortions) and everyone would get into their first-choice college.

Straw man. Nobody thinks that prayer == getting verbatim what was prayed for. Simplifying the positions of others to the point of blatant (and inaccurate) absurdity is impolite.

The most common "simple-minded" interpretation seems to be that if your prayer is received favorably it will nudge probability and circumstances in ineffable yet potent ways, but generally not in ways that are blatantly outside of the realm of mundane possibility. They aren't always answered the way we expect; if you don't get into your prayed-for first choice college, why, that's likely a blessing in disguise, and God is giving you what He knows will turn out best for you even though you don't understand it yet. Or else it's part of God's Plan, which apparently requires some children to die no matter what, but has enough wiggle room to save others if He gets enough prayers on their behalf.

Prayers are more likely to be heard favorably if you are a virtuous and deserving person. From this, we may infer that the unfortunate are neither virtuous nor deserving, unless we like them (or are them), in which case they are suffering through the trials the Devil has laid upon them.

So God knows if you've been bad or good. Prayers are a list you give him of the things you want, but you generally only get whatever the people around you are able to provide.

So God's not a vending machine. He's Santa.

[Jeff]

My daughter proposed last election that they replace the current debate format with a three-tiered system of spelling bee, bake-off, and episode of Dance Dance Revolution.

Having them face off at Grand Slam would be awesome. (GS pits the highest money winners -- Ken Jennings, John Carpenter -- off in a fast-paced contest of vocabulary, math skills and general knowledge. Failing that, how about a special contest of Jeopardy, but instead of Potent Potables, the categories would have questions answers that any Presidential candidate should know.

[Pseudowolf]

I'm ethnically Texas (Southern) Baptist, but split in college, in part due to the whole separation of church and state tradition that the faith of my fathers seem to have put behind them.

Same here on both counts.

Hey, any other GA's in the house? I somehow missed my Year 4 badge, but got all the others. RA's?

I was in RA's.

We're Royal Ambassadors
Ambassadors for Christ
We'll follow our Lord and King
Whereever He may lead
We'll spread Good News of Christ today
We'll worship in our work or play
We're Royal Ambassadors
Ambassadors for Christ

....I can't believe I still know that song.

[Pseudowolf]

The Spelling Bee would be hosted by Alex Tribek
The bake-off would be hosted by Gordon Ramsey
I dunno who'd host the DDR competition, but honestly, would it need one?

[Pseudowolf]

The Spelling Bee would be hosted by Alex Tribek
The bake-off would be hosted by Gordon Ramsey
I dunno who'd host the DDR competition, but honestly, would it need one?

[the opoponax]

at least in the context of teaching kids to actually read their little book.

That's kinda the thing, though. It doesn't teach the kids to read the bible, it teaches them to seperate it into individual verses which can be found and repeated (or better yet, memorized, as it would be mad easy to pwn simply by knowing the verse in question and the general vicinity of its location in your edition). What it teaches is the approach to the bible that allows fundies to condemn homosexuality in the same breath as they ask for more bacon.

If you could devise a game that would actually get kids reading the bible, I'd be all for that.

[realityfighter]

Didn't the Church of Scientology do this awhile back? Only they used lawyers instead of prayer, much more effective that way.

[Jeff]

I dunno who'd host the DDR competition, but honestly, would it need one?

Tom ("Dancing with the Stars") Bergeron would be "made of win" as the kids say.

If you could devise a game that would actually get kids reading the bible, I'd be all for that.

Divide the kids into groups of about 5 or six, let them pick sections of the Bible and write themselves a play about it and present it to the rest of the class. Appropriate adult supervision to help with difficult parts, making sure that Bottom doesn't try to steal all the parts and Tuck doesn't fade into the woodwork, but as much as possible, the kids guide themselves. Could be great fun!

[Chris M.]

"The problems that we do control" is straight out of Niebuhr.

Don't know if it's been mentioned here before, but The New Republic's Open University blog had a good discussion a while back on Obama's grasp of Niebuhr (http://www.tnr.com/blog/openuniversity?week=2007-04-30).

[Alex Scott]

This discussion is starting to remind me of the original Producers, where Max is arguing with the landlord, and calls on God to strike him down.

The landlord looks up and says, "Don't listen to him, he's crazy."

Also, it reminds me of something I heard in an Anthropology class about the "Big Man" tradition in some tribal cultures. Basically, they decide their leader and settle disputes with eating contests. The professor wondered out loud what it would be like if Bush and Saddam worked out their differences that way.

Of course, if we were to do this here, then Takeru Kobayashi would be the frontrunner by default.

[James]

I was under the impression that the Baptist Church was centralised enough that doing this without clearing it with someone more senior should land Mr Drake in a considerable amount of hot water with more than just the IRS. It's also rather ironic that in England, a country that actually HAS a state religion and has never made the practice illegal, endorsement of individual candidates by any mainstream denomination has been abandoned as accruing too much unfavourable political comment.

[ako]

I owned at Sword Drill.

Funny, when I tried to envision it, all I got was a room full of disappointed little kids.

"Hey, kids! Next week in Sunday School we're doing sword drills!"

"Hooray!"

--- Next week ---

"Here's your 'sword', kids."

"It's a Bible."

"That's right! The Bible is the Christian's sword! And we're drilling to be good Christian soldiers, fighting for Jesus! Isn't that exciting?"

* Collective groans from the children and/or the Sunday School teacher getting pelted with Bibles *

Am I close?

[Ecks]

....I can't believe I still know that song.

Freaky yes. OTOH, anyone brought up in England automatically knows the lyrics to a song called "for he's a jolly good fellow." I'm not making that up.

To each his own burden :)

[Ecks]

Hey, it occurs to me that it would be amusing* to take a big fat marker to sword drill, and after everyone has drawn, shout "the pen is mightier than the sword" and run around trying to write "pwned" on anyone you can.

*in much the same sense snot is amusing, except in a more belligerently disrespectful way.

[Ryan Ferneau]

Yeah, I bet those sword drills only have appeal to the total bible nerds. On the other hand, if someone told me I was going to be in a "sword drill" with no more description than that, I might worry that someone was going to drill a flaming hole in my head. ...With a sword... ...Or some other unpleasantness involving swords, so I'd probably ask for clarification. Or if I was smart, I'd already know the stupid "sword = bible" metaphor from some other lesson.

[Louis]

Drake said Wednesday he was "simply doing what God told me to do" by targeting Americans United officials Joe Conn and Jeremy Leaming, whom he calls the "enemies of God."

Why would God want Drake to have folks pray for someone's death? If He wanted someone dead, wouldn't it be more logical to skip the middlemen and just smite the guy?

Or is there some aspect of desiring complicity in the death?

It's basically saying, "Hey I want you to get a whole bunch of people to ask me to do something." What's the point?

[DonBoy]

I'd love to see Mr. Learing file a lawsuit against Wiley and his church. All they'd need to do to defend themselves would be to explain that they don't really believe in the efficacy of prayer.

If that hasn't been a David E. Kelley script yet, it should be.

[not someone else]

That's kinda the thing, though. It doesn't teach the kids to read the bible, it teaches them to seperate it into individual verses which can be found and repeated (or better yet, memorized, as it would be mad easy to pwn simply by knowing the verse in question and the general vicinity of its location in your edition). What it teaches is the approach to the bible that allows fundies to condemn homosexuality in the same breath as they ask for more bacon.

By itself, kinda, but it's not essentially much different from something you'd do for math or history. Add in short discussions about the passages between finding 'em, or make the questions somewhat more open-ended so it works for an open-book quiz, and...

Well, okay, or you could just do something else. I still think it sounds cute.

If you could devise a game that would actually get kids reading the bible, I'd be all for that.

Popsicle stick puppets. Stick puppets damn near unconverted me. Also Paleo-Hebrew. Mmm, squiggly lines...

[Jeff Weskamp]

"Why would God want Drake to have folks pray for someone's death? If He wanted someone dead, wouldn't it be more logical to skip the middlemen and just smite the guy?"

Good point, Louis. Drake's implication is that God is so ineffective that He can't smite someone unless a tiny little human prays for him to do the smiting! I'd like to believe that God is mighty enough to smite the deserving even if no one asks him to.

[Pseudowolf]

Why would God want Drake to have folks pray for someone's death? If He wanted someone dead, wouldn't it be more logical to skip the middlemen and just smite the guy?

Well, he probably believes in the magic genie God where he has to say the magic words or God won't be able to smite the guys. Either that or he's just trying to cover his ass by saying "Oh God told me to do it so you can't criticize me or you are criticizing God. I AM ABOVE THE LAW!!"

I was under the impression that the Baptist Church was centralised enough that doing this without clearing it with someone more senior should land Mr Drake in a considerable amount of hot water with more than just the IRS.

Actually, there is no central authority for Baptists. The SBC and whatever other Baptist organizations can have meetings and say "We believe such-and-so" but they can't make anyone follow it. They have no authority in the churches themselves. About the only thing they could do would be to say "We don't share those views" and/or not allow him to come to their convention. But they can't fire him, fine him, or anything else.

This is why so many of the really outrageous pastors tend to be Baptist. Because only their own church can get rid of him/her and as long as the congregation does nothing, he/she stays. A perfect example of this (other than Drake) is Fred Phelps. He's the pastor of Westboro Baptist Church, but you'd be hard pressed to find very many other Baptists outside of his church who agree with him.

[Ecks]

Yar, but then you get into the whole loop where there's no point praying for anything, because, hey, shouldn't God already know.

The lesson I draw is that praying != asking God for instrumental action;
He seems much more like a pillow talk type deity - y'know, tell him how your day went, reveal some of your insecurities, assure him that you love him...