Road to ruin

I've long admired (abstractly, from afar) the kind of piety and devotion described in Brother Lawrence's The Practice of the Presence of God (the full text is online here) or the idea of Frank Laubach's "game with minutes" as described in his Letters by a Modern Mystic. Such efforts to find the holy in the mundane and to seek an attitude of love and prayer for everyone we encounter seem saintly in the best sense.*

God knows as well that I'm never further from sainthood then when I'm driving in traffic. Loving prayer is not my first response to the guy tailgating me, or the guy doing 50 in the left lane, or the SUV-drivers who don't use turn signals when changing lanes. So the idea of treating an Interstate as something holy -- a place where, in Laubach's words, I am "as wide open to people and their need as I am toward God" -- seems to me like it could be a Good Thing.

But this is something else entirely: "Christians Movement Calls I-35 a 'Highway of Holiness.'" (Thanks to Andrew B. for the tip.):

People drive on it every day, sometimes cursing along the way, but thousands of people consider Interstate 35 to be a holy road.

The highway that stretches from Laredo to Duluth, Minn., has grabbed the attention of Christians across the country, including those in Austin. Members of Christian groups along the I-35 corridor said the highway was mentioned in the Bible, and in order to fulfill a prophecy, it needs a little saving first.

According to Light the Highway, the worldwide movement is driving thousands to prayer on the interstate. Christians said the Old Testament's book of Isaiah prophesizes I-35 will be the United States' "Highway of Holiness."

Isaiah 35:8 reads: "And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it."

"Everything we do, we want to make sure scripture is backing us up," said Austin's PromiseLand Church Pastor Charlie Lujan. "I-35 being Isaiah 35, it just matched."

OK, so maybe this is just a bit of whimsical wordplay. Maybe this I-35 = Isaiah 35 notion is just a playful way of finding a hook for a renewed emphasis on prayer. I mean, it's just not possible that this guy really thinks that the English titles, modern chapter divisions, and the naming conventions of the interstate highway system should be considered as inspired holy writ.

Or maybe it is. Reading on, it doesn't seem like Lujan and his Light the Highway effort are a terribly whimsical or playful bunch. Isaiah 35 is a joyous expression of millennial hope** but, like our friends LaHaye and Jenkins, these folks don't seem interested in such promises of future restoration and healing. They're all about the judgment and the purifying fire. They seem to like Isaiah 35:8 only because of its condemnation of "wicked fools" and "the unclean," by which they don't mean the invading armies of Babylon but -- what else? -- the gay menace:

Lujan conducted a five-week 24-hour prayer vigil and organized what he called a "purity siege" along Austin's famed Sixth Street. The sieges are part of the I-35 project, a nationwide movement to save those at bars, gay clubs and abortion clinics in cities along the interstate.

"If you just draw a line right down the middle of the nation, and go to these strategic cities along the way and just cry out holiness and purity, we believe there's going to be a referendum, a change, a radical change in our nation," Lujan said.

What, you may be wondering, is a "purity siege"? It's helpfully defined here as:

A spiritual demonstration. In much the same way people protest against governmental or business aspects of society, youth across the nation will “siege” sites of impurity in their city, by doing on-location prayer. They will be protesting the machinations of evil, such as pornography, injustice, abortion and other strongholds. They will stand outside of spiritual strongholds and visually demonstrate their opposition thereof, while doing warfare in heavenly realm.

Light the Highway (read that not as "illuminate" but as "incinerate") recounts a recent "siege," conducted in September in Dallas:

Fifty or so young people have gathered on Oak Lawn Avenue, positioning themselves on the sidewalk outside of JR’s Bar and Grill, one of many nightclubs found in this neighborhood, which is well-known for its large population of homosexuals. The group stays in a tight circle, praying and singing worship songs and asking God for holiness. They are there to confront the spirit of perversion and siege unholiness. ...

As the Siege continues, the power of God falls, and the young people start evangelizing, talking to, and praying for people including homosexuals, transgender and transvestites. They share with them how God loves them, and through the power of Jesus Christ, they can be set free from their sinful lifestyle. The purpose of the Siege was not to communicate a message of hate or exclusion, but rather, a message of love, forgiveness, acceptance and freedom.

Because, you know, nothing says "love, forgiveness, acceptance and freedom" like a siege and a "tight circle ... asking God for holiness."

The response is overwhelming as people begin to fall on the ground under the power of the Holy Spirit.

I'm not sure who I feel worse for here -- the patrons of JR's harassed by the everything-but-snake-handling prayer meeting on their sidewalk, or the "young people" corralled into this awkwardly aggressive form of "radical evangelism." The youth leader who organized this expedition, in my opinion, has a millstone-necklace with his name on it.

My own church youth group never laid siege to a gay bar, but I still wince when I recall some of our forays into "radical" evangelism. We did "boardwalk evangelism" down the shore. I personally handed a gospel tract to Madame Marie herself. Unlike the many mission trips our youth group also did, that wasn't something I enjoyed at the time or felt proud about afterward.

This is the dynamic at work in so much of what fundamentalist and evangelical churches think of as "youth ministry." Tell a bunch of good church kids what God expects of them and they will do their best to comply. Tell them God wants them to pass out tracts to strangers and they'll go along. Tell them God wants them to lay siege to a nightclub and they'll get on the van. They will go along because their conscience will be telling them that if this is what God would have them do, then it is what they ought to do. But their conscience will also be telling them that this seems not just awkward or intimidating, but wrong. "Be bold and courageous for God," the youth minister will tell them, but they're not balking out of fear, they're hesitating out of guilt. That will, in turn, provoke another crisis of conscience as they wonder what's wrong with them that makes them feel like right is wrong.

You can only stretch that rubber band so many times before it snaps and one of two things will happen. They may decide that their conscience cannot be trusted and thus will stop listening to it, becoming the sort of people who will one day grow up to lead another generation of young people in another round of purity sieges. Or their conscience will win out and they will have their Huckleberry Finn moment:

It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a-trembling, because I'd got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself:

"All right, then, I'll go to Hell" -- and tore it up.

It was awful thoughts and awful words, but they was said. And I let them stay said; and never thought no more about reforming. ... And for a starter I would go to work and steal Jim out of slavery again; and if I could think up anything worse, I would do that, too; because as long as I was in, and in for good, I might as well go the whole hog.

Some few of those who snap in the latter direction may eventually come to realize that what God wants is not necessarily the same as what God's alleged spokesmen say it is, and thus they may wind up rejecting only the advice of the spokesmen, and not rejecting God entirely. But many won't make that distinction.

This happens all the time. It's happening, right now, for many of those poor kids from that Dallas youth group that laid siege to JR's. If you find yourself driving on I-35, say a prayer for them.

- - - - - - - - - -

* And not in the sense of one of my favorite old jokes: What is a saint? A person who always, always, always does the Right Thing. What is a martyr? A person who has to live with a saint.

** As such it's also the inspiration for one of my favorite Wesleyan hymns, "O for a Thousand Tongues To Sing": Hear Him, ye deaf; His praise ye dumb, / Your loosened tongues employ; / Ye blind, behold your Savior come, / And leap, ye lame, for joy.

Comments

[Painini]

I mean, it's just not possible that this guy really thinks that the English titles, modern chapter divisions, and the naming conventions of the interstate highway system should be considered as inspired holy writ.

Checking Isaiah 15, I find it's all about 'The Moab Pronouncement' - but I-15 passes one hundred miles to the west to the west of Moab. You'd think holy writ would've kept that on track.

Good post, Fred!

Regarding prayerfulness in traffic:
A pastor provided me with an option on reacting to people who, clearly, have no concern about the well-being of others once they are behind the wheel. (Especially the ones with the dam fish on their SUV bumpers!) I am no longer torn between awful (heart-felt) cursing or goody-two-shoes (hypocritical) blessings/white light/turning the other cheek (bumper). Instead I offer this honest and heart-felt prayer: "May God bless you as you bless others!"

Oh, sure, Whoever is listening knows what I *really* mean. But, I like to think I'm giving the benefit of the doubt if it was a mistake. And I am sincere in my hope for timely divine intervention with a moving menace. (-smile-)

Regarding the "purity sieges":
I never know what to make of people who send naive, over-protected children to "evangelize" among the very people they would shoot before allowing into their neighborhoods, let alone their living rooms.

I had a friend like this, who took her birthday off every year to "witness" at the local adult bookstore. She honestly believed that gettingin the faces of men entering or leaving to offer them a cookie in a plastic bag, would turn them from A Life Of Sin. In my most evil moments, I used to wonder how she would react if those same Depraved Sinners relentlessly lurked outside her church door, foisting plastic sample bags of tasty tapes or magazines on anyone who looked like an easy target...

[Karen]

I live in Austin and I think this is just an excuse for the PromiseLand youth group to hang out at 6th Street bars.

Al so, my younger son had the best comment on our freeways. He and my mother were playing. He told Nana that his thumb was tasty, his forefinger was for pointing, and his middle finger was "the one Mommy uses all the time when she's driving."

[Duane]

If there is one hideous time that could possibly have been worse than all the hideousness of growing up fundamental Baptist (the awful haircuts and hair grease, all the plaid and polyester, the forced singing performances in front of the church, the regular fear that my folks had been raptured and I'd been left behind at the age of eight, etc., etc.) it would have to be Revival Week when we'd be forced out into the surrounding neighborhoods to pass out flyers door to door and *gulp* ASK people to come to our stupid little revival. It wasn't enough to stuff a flyer in their door, we had to knock and personally invite them. Because Jesus said something about making us little children suffer..

[Tonio]

Fred, great thoughts about the conscience.

If any American highway can lay claim to being the holy road, it would be Steinbeck's Mother Road. But I suppose that one of its spur roads would lay claim to being the Highway to Hell - U.S. Route 666, now Route 491.

"witness" at the local adult bookstore

I could rant about how the Supreme Court's "prurient interest" concept is apparently rooted in Christian beliefs about masturbation. But instead, I say let him who has a free hand cast the first stone.

[peatey]

"But many won't make that distinction. This happens all the time."

Indeed. Happened here. It's hard for a Thomas to make that distinction when the RTC incantation doesn't result in a Holy-Ghost-Hot-Flash or even a Jeebus-In-Heart.

Btw, 'cast the first stone,' is that some code for bukake?

[Tonio]

Btw, 'cast the first stone,' is that some code for bukake?

I can authoritatively say no since I had never heard of that word - I had to Google it. I was criticizing the hypocrisy inherent in condemnations of self-satisfaction. But your interpretation might apply if Multiple Miggs ever testified on Capitol Hill.

[Reverend Ref]

Is it wrong to hope that our local evangelical, "Fight sin at all costs" church will attempt a bar siege on the same night I drop in to visit (while wearing my collar, of course)?

That might, however, lead to an explosion on the order of matter/anti-matter.

Overheard by the A.G. Youth Leader: "That Episcopal priest TOUCHED me!!!"

Could be interesting ....

[Spalanzani]

"They will be protesting the machinations of evil, such as pornography, injustice, abortion and other strongholds."

I'm glad that they managed to squeeze "injustice" in there, right between pornography and abortion. So about a third of their priorities are composed of things that Jesus actually, you know, mentioned to some degree. That's a lot more than some churches I know.

[Retrogrouch]

Lating siege to JRs seems a bit - well - pointless. Yes, Uptown is THE gay neighborhood here in my home town. BUT, JRs is about a mile down the road, on the same street as Cathedral of Hope. (cathedralofhope.com) Dallas has the highest percentage of saved gays and lesbians of any metropolitan area.

I'm sure the patrons of JRs were quite open and caring and maybe even concerned when they saw people writhing on the ground. I'm sure many offered to help. I'm sure several talked with the "seigers" about accepting Jesus in the way Jesus accepts all of us. Maybe, even though the article does not say, some people were saved that night. Maybe some people were introduced to the extravagantly welcoming Jesus. Maybe, thIs "PURITY SEIGE" in Dallas did some good.

[Retrogrouch]

One other thing, I-35 in Austin - especially where it is 2-level is about the scariest most graceless place I have ever been on this planet. Mostly due to the clearly satanic civil engineers at TXDOT. The rest of Austin seems pretty nice... and even safe since no car can move at a speed greater than 12 mph anywhere else in that city.

[Pseudowolf]

And I can't help but wonder. If this verse appeared in Micah, would they be "laying siege" to the UK's motorways?

[Pseudowolf]

"One other thing, I-35 in Austin - especially where it is 2-level is about the scariest most graceless place I have ever been on this planet. Mostly due to the clearly satanic civil engineers at TXDOT. The rest of Austin seems pretty nice... and even safe since no car can move at a speed greater than 12 mph anywhere else in that city."

So, so true.

Also, this sheds a whole new light on those billboards signed by "God". Didn't they first appear in Austin or San Antonio? Both of which are on I-35?

[mmack]

Since mrs. mmack and I often drive on I-355 (The North-South tollway that connects I-290/IL 53 to I-80 in the western Chicago suburbs), I read this passage (Isaiah 35.5)

" Then will the eyes of the blind be opened
and the ears of the deaf unstopped."

To mean "That IDIOT in the Explorer doing 50 in the left lane will finally hear my horn, look in their rear-view mirror, and move over to let me pass!"

Or have I got that all wrong?

[Ecks]

The unclean will not journey on it

So that means that no bad people drive on highway I-35, right? So basically if anyone ever accuses you of being a sinner, you can happily point out that you've driven down it several times, but thanks so much for your concern.

Because fundies are well known for their strict adherence to logical consistency under all circumstances, right? Nevermind.

[Karen]

Retrogrouch, I've lived in Austin since 1987 and I haven't driven on the upper deck in all that time.

As for TxDOT, I worked there for six years. You can determine a lot about that agency by the fact that they had a policy against ever closing for ice storms. That is, we suits had to use our own leave time if the schools closed because, since the guys who ran the sand trucks had to get out, so should everyone else. It never really occurred to management that the guys driving the sand trucks probably didn't want all of us out making obstructions.

[realityfighter]

I personally take avoidance of I-35 as a sign of great prudence - especially with the tankers exploding on it and whatnot.

I saw this story earlier this week and was sure it was a joke, so thank you, Fred, for proving that the universe is actually crazier than I thought.

[Ecks]

You should have demanded a sand truck be given to you so that you could safely drive in the ice storms. After all, if the sand truck guys get one...

[Abelardus]

... nothing says "love, forgiveness, acceptance and freedom" like a siege and a "tight circle ... asking God for holiness."

Again with the God-shaped hole.

And again with the Huck Finn reference: that thing can work wonders.

[JessicaR]

You know, I bet there are a lot of soup kitchens, homeless shelters, foster kids, and other assorted folks in need living right of of I-35 that could use resources, support, and time. And that would be a real purification of the land. So anybody want to take bets on when fundies are going to make that part of their I-35 strategy? Why are you laughing?

[Cat]

Funny about the snapping point: recent comments on a forum I belong to forced me to revisit mine. I was thirteen, and our minister's wife called me a Satanist for listening to heavy metal. It was, I think, my first realization that my then-fellow Christians could be wrong about matters spiritual, because I knew I wasn't a Satanist, and in fact for about four more years I would continue to limp along as a Christian. Before that, I'd just believed anything anyone told me about God, from schoolmates to TV preachers to the antagonists in L.M. Montgomery novels; afterwards, I became aware of this widening gulf between what I heard was holy and what I knew was right. Until one day when I was seventeen, Fred Phelps, in one of his first nationwide television appearances, said, "Anyone who does not believe in the literal truth of the Bible is a Pagan!" And I said to my television set, "You know what? That's fine with me."

I do feel a touch bad that what pushed me to it was Motley Crue, not consciousness of human suffering, but the validation is still very nice.

[Retrogrouch]

JessicaR: In Dallas, all the shelters and soup kitchens are just off I-30. Isaiah 30 doesn't work, although it has this nice one:

"Woe to the obstinate children,"
declares the LORD,
"to those who carry out plans that are not mine,
forming an alliance, but not by my Spirit,
heaping sin upon sin

Maybe, reading too much into this highway thing aint a good idea...

[Technomad]

Has Fred Phelps finally got those orbital mind-control lasers online?

If they're so worried about sin, let them go "besiege" a really tough biker bar---or, better yet, a 1%er club's clubhouse! That ought to be interesting!

[burgundy]

There's room for legitimate ministry here in Austin with I-35 as the focal point, but it would have to concern itself with poverty and racism, which seem not to be on these people's radar.

JessicaR: You know, I bet there are a lot of soup kitchens, homeless shelters, foster kids, and other assorted folks in need living right of of I-35 that could use resources, support, and time. As a matter of fact, the Austin Resource Center for the Homeless is just a few blocks west of the freeway...

[pepperjackcandy]

Speaking of alcohol, I've been obsessively researching fetal alcohol spectrum disorder (or whatever they're calling it now), trying to piece together a story my mom told me about one of my grade-school teachers having adopted a child with FASD.

I think I've come to the conclusion that they did in fact relinquish their rights to the boy, if only to make the state pay for his mental health care.

In my wanderings I found this: H.R. 687: Keeping Families Together Act of 2007

This is the third place I've posted this. This looks like a good idea, but I'm only marginally informed on the subjects involved (social work, mental health, finance, etc.), so I'm asking. Is this a good idea? Will it work?

[burgundy]

pepperjackcandy: I think that expanding options for people to avoid relinquishing custody is a great idea, but I'm doubtful about the impact of this bill in particular. I've only read the summary, so I could have gotten the wrong idea. But here are my impressions so far:

It provides funds (through a competitive matching grant) to expand public health insurance programs (presumably Medicaid and CHIP). This means that families currently covered by those programs might have more services paid for, but it doesn't address the people not eligible. Families making too much money to qualify (and depending on the state, that might not be very much money at all) who don't have good mental health coverage from other sources are still stuck.

It increases coverage without actually increasing services. There's a real shortage of specialists, especially outside of major urban areas. And a lot of providers don't accept Medicaid because of the paperwork and the reimbursement rates, so even if Medicaid pays for a service there's no guarantee a family in need will be able to access it.

The task force might gather some useful information, but in some ways this is reinventing the wheel. The New Freedom Commission has already identified a lot of barriers to care for people with MHMR needs, and a number of states have already gotten money to address this, and in Texas at least they're looking at children's needs.

This is a very small band-aid, and any benefit it provides will be a long time coming. There might be some families that see an immediate benefit; I don't know enough about the distribution of need and eligibility and so on.

[Randy Owens]

They will be protesting the machinations of evil, such as pornography, injustice, abortion and other strongholds.

Sadly, somehow, I rather doubt that their meaning of "injustice" syncs up with mine at all.

Also, wasn't it I-35 that the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis carried? I wonder how they interpret that with the Holiness of the Way in mind?

[Praline]

Everything we do, we want to make sure scripture is backing us up.

It's an interesting formulation, isn't it? Not 'We want to be sure everything we do is in accordance with scripture.' Not 'Everything that scripture tells us to do, we have to act on.' Not anything that suggests scripture comes first and their behaviour follows it. No, they want scripture to be backing them up.

No doubt they'd say they meant 'in accordance...', but 'backing us up' is a curiously disrespectful way of talking about something tht's supposed to be the centre and light of their lives. When you go into action, the leader is the one you follow. The guy backing you up is your second-in-command.

You can hear it, can't you? 'I'm gonna go throw a scare into those deviants over there. God, back me up; here, Jesus, you can hold my coat.'

Personally, I think if you see scripture as something that has to back you up, rather than something you should be led by, you might want to spend less time harassing people and more time reflecting on your faith. Religion should be a guiding light, not a rearguard justification of doing what you've decided to do anyway. Using your faith to justify your bad points is one of the commonest human frailities - I'm sure I'm just as prone to it as everybody else - but it's scary when it gets this aggressive.

[ajay]

And I can't help but wonder. If this verse appeared in Micah, would they be "laying siege" to the UK's motorways?

A quick check reveals that God is firmly opposed to the construction of the London M25 orbital motorway. In Matthew 25 we find "6: But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money."

There you are - complete waste of money, saith the LORD.

This is entertaining - Isaiah has lots about road building. "Make straight in the desert a highway for our God", etc.

[Rosina]

A quick check reveals that God is firmly opposed to the construction of the London M25 orbital motorway.

But we always knew this was Crowley's doing, including the late night expedition to move a few pegs and pieces of string so that it would form the sigil Odegra.

[Mark]

Ah the M25, glorious encircling concrete, protecting london from all that would try to invade it by it's constant wall of stationary cars! Up until now though, I'd never realised it was like ten virgins going to meet the bridegroom. That would explain how come some of them have got frustrated with the waiting and have given up on patient hope.

[Jesurgislac]

But we always knew this was Crowley's doing, including the late night expedition to move a few pegs and pieces of string so that it would form the sigil Odegra.

But that didn't mean God was opposed. It's all ineffable. And inevitable.

[dave]

Yes, it was an I-35 bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis, so when you're making the run between Duluth and Laredo, take I-35E through St. Paul.

[chuckp]

as I'm intimately familiar with interstate 95:

Isaiah 9:5 - "For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire."

Yep. That sounds about right. Really not looking forward to that Christmas trip back home now.

[Scott]

There's room for legitimate ministry here in Austin with I-35 as the focal point, but it would have to concern itself with poverty and racism, which seem not to be on these people's radar.

But we protest poverty all the time. Just the other day, we surrounded a poor person's house with picket signs and protested him.

our minister's wife called me a Satanist for listening to heavy metal.

My born-again uncle went further than that. He told his sister, my mother, that the fact that my siblings and I listened to heavy metal showed that she wasn't raising us right.

Some few of those who snap in the latter direction may eventually come to realize that what God wants is not necessarily the same as what God's alleged spokesmen say it is, and thus they may wind up rejecting only the advice of the spokesmen, and not rejecting God entirely.

How many of those few come to some other conclusion as to what God wants? And if so, how do they come to that conclusion? And how many of them arrive at the deist position that God has no wants at all?

[twig]

I do feel a touch bad that what pushed me to it was Motley Crue, not consciousness of human suffering, but the validation is still very nice.

Win.

Also, god, I-35. If it wasn't Mopac, I wasn't driving it. Anytime anything caught fire or flipped over it was on I-35. A co-worker lost both her and her husband's car in the same week in rollover accidents on I-35. I suppose I did pray more while I was driving that road, especially at the upper/lower deck split.

Sand trucks in Texas? Granted I haven't lived there for a couple of years but the last time there was an ice storm in Austin I didn't see sign one of any kind of truck.

[Carol]

If you go for Isaiah 3:5 standing in for I-35, then you get "People will oppress each other- man against man, neighbor against neighbor. The young will rise up against the old, the base against the honorable." Hm.

Man, reading Isiah as the Lord's literal revelation about the U.S. interstate system is entertaining. Isaiah 40:4-5 (clearly standing in for I-440 and I-540) states "Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken." God plays favorites with highways - he might hate London's M25, but he loves Raleigh's beltline and outer loop.

[Tonio]

So anybody want to take bets on when fundies are going to make that part of their I-35 strategy? Why are you laughing?

Some extremist Christians believe that poor people do not deserve charity because poverty is a divine punishment for wickedness. Is this common in fundamentalism, or does it belong to a specific strain such as Dominionism?

[Scott]

But I35 divides, and if a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

[Dash]

I think I've figured out what's wrong with our elected officials in Washington. I-495 is the beltway around Washington, D.C. And Isaiah 49:5 is: "And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength."

Yep, the damn fools took it personally.

[cjmr]

So do the elected officials think they're Isaiah, or do they think they're God?

[Geds]

Sweet. Isaiah 8:8 conclusively proves that Chicago is actually the new Holy Land: "Then it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass through, it will reach even to the neck; and the spread of its wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel." Since I-88 actually ends in Hillside, maybe it's a Chicago suburb that's the new Jerusalem. Although that wouldn't explain why the confluence of 88 and 290 is known as the "Hillside Strangler."

You can only stretch that rubber band so many times before it snaps and one of two things will happen. They may decide that their conscience cannot be trusted and thus will stop listening to it, becoming the sort of people who will one day grow up to lead another generation of young people in another round of purity sieges. Or their conscience will win out and they will have their Huckleberry Finn moment:

You, Fred, are some kind of frickin' genius. I actually managed to quite literally walk on both sides of that line. During the, um, 60% of the school year that I was my local InterVarsity chapter's Outreach Coordinator my goal was to basically get the group to do service project type stuff. The other leaders kept pushing for more outright evangelism. I remember there was exactly one event that I scheduled and ran that I didn't even want to be at after bowing to the pressure. Fortunately the general lethargy and crappy attitude of the group caused a predictably low turnout and I was able to use that to make sure there was nothing else like that scheduled. It wasn't long after that when I got fed up with all of the wonderful "Christian love" everyone was displaying and left the group.

About a year later, as I was still struggling along within various Fundamentalist circles, I read Christopher Hedge's American Fascists. Although I didn't really agree with a lot of the book, I loved the way he ended it. He quoted Huck Finn's "Alright, then, I'll go to Hell" speech. I basically thought, "Hell, yeah."

Some few of those who snap in the latter direction may eventually come to realize that what God wants is not necessarily the same as what God's alleged spokesmen say it is, and thus they may wind up rejecting only the advice of the spokesmen, and not rejecting God entirely. But many won't make that distinction.

It's a lot more complicated when you can make the decision but don't really see the point. I can no longer buy that the Fundie interpretation of god is anywhere close to what god actually is (assuming there is a god), but life in fundie-land has so screwed up any interpretation I can come up with to figure out the divine that I figure it's best not to try. It's too easy to get pulled back in to the "prayer siege" mentality, even if I'm at a fairly liberal Presbyterian church. Even if the place I'm in doesn't do any of the negative stuff, the rote responses kick in way too easily.

The thing that frustrates me, though, is seeing old friends and the junior highers I used to work with growing up and staying in those little Christian circles. I know that a lot of them will be the ones leading another generation down that road at some point in the future. I like to think that they wouldn't do stuff as bizarre as the junk in Fred's post, but I know it will be similar. I've actually cut ties with a few people who I know are the older generations' watchers who keep track of the young adults and kids I know. I can't stand to see the way thoughts and actions are watched and controlled. I also know that there's really nothing I can do about it, since growing up in youth groups and whatever we would watch videos or hear messages designed to specifically combat the things that I now know are not wrong (like Cat with the heavy metal above). There are certain key phrases or ideas that have such a rote, programmed response that it's hard to combat them in myself, let alone as a newly minted outsider.

Actually, the underlying psychology and social programming of fundamentalist Christianity is fascinating. I could probably write a book about it...

[Geds]

Wow. I'm back at my work computer and I just wrote a long post and got it up without even a CAPTCHA. I salute your skills with the whip and stool, Fred. It's entirely possible that you actually have tamed the wild beast that is TypePad.

[Vermic]

So that means that no bad people drive on highway I-35, right? So basically if anyone ever accuses you of being a sinner, you can happily point out that you've driven down it several times, but thanks so much for your concern.

Well, no. Clearly the meaning of the passage is that the unclean CAN drive on it, but SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO. It wouldn't surprise me if these imbeciles attempt to get some legislature introduced to that effect.

[Dash]

Geds: I can no longer buy that the Fundie interpretation of god is anywhere close to what god actually is (assuming there is a god), but life in fundie-land has so screwed up any interpretation I can come up with to figure out the divine that I figure it's best not to try. It's too easy to get pulled back in to the "prayer siege" mentality, even if I'm at a fairly liberal Presbyterian church. Even if the place I'm in doesn't do any of the negative stuff, the rote responses kick in way too easily.

What Geds said. Well put and exactly on target. Not at all, I gather, an uncommon experience.

[mmack]

Sweet. Isaiah 8:8 conclusively proves that Chicago is actually the new Holy Land: "Then it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass through, it will reach even to the neck; and the spread of its wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel." Since I-88 actually ends in Hillside, maybe it's a Chicago suburb that's the new Jerusalem.

Geds, since I-88 passes through it, that will serve as conclusive proof to the citizens of Naperville that they are in "Heaven on Earth".

:^/

[Vermic]

Geds, since I-88 passes through it, that will serve as conclusive proof to the citizens of Naperville that they are in "Heaven on Earth".

Well, to be fair, they do have a very nice Red Lobster there.

[Tonio]

News flash - the newly formed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Cloverleafs teaches that the original Yellow Book is another testament.

[cjmr]

Naperville also has my best friend's Mom! ;)