L.B.: Willful stupidity

Left Behind, pp. 412-414 (a few days late)

Imagine trying to convince yourself that curling and cricket were more popular in the U.S. than baseball and (American) football.

It wouldn't be easy. You'd have to ignore massive evidence to the contrary while also overlooking the lack of any supporting evidence. Every time you walked down the street, you'd have to come up with some explanation or evasion for all those people you saw in baseball caps and football jerseys as well as for all the people you didn't see in licensed apparel for cricket and curling teams. You could never watch Sports Center on ESPN. You could never pick up a newspaper or even walk near a newsstand. But your best efforts to shield yourself from all of that evidence could never be 100-percent effective (or 100-percent unconscious), so you'd also have to concoct increasingly elaborate conspiracy theories about why so many people pretended to follow football and baseball while millions of others apparently disguised their passion for curling and cricket.

That would be a lot of work. It would be difficult to do that much work without it being at least somewhat deliberate. This is the problem with any extensive self-deception -- part of your self is necessarily engaged in the act of deceiving and is therefore aware of and immune to it.

This same kind of deliberate evasion and willing self-deception is what it must take for Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins to be able to persuade themselves of all the strange things they claim to believe about the United Nations.

To summarize what we've previously seen, the authors of Left Behind apparently claim to believe that the U.N. is a kind of global federation, something along the lines of the Federation of Planets in Star Trek. Every member nation is thus subject and subordinate to this higher, larger, more authoritative global body. Ruling over all is the secretary-general -- the king of kings and lord of lords who wields more power and influence than any mere head of state. The secretary-general is thus the precursor to the coming Antichrist and the U.N. is a precursor to his One World Government. (As with much of premillennial dispensationalism, this is an explicit perversion of mainstream eschatology and the "now and not yet" doctrine of the kingdom of God.)

The authors' disproportionate sense of the U.N.'s importance and their utter ignorance of its actual role and function cannot be easy to maintain. How do you convince yourself that a topic is of unrivaled significance while simultaneously preventing yourself from learning anything about it? To maintain their beliefs about the U.N., the authors need to avoid all newspapers, magazines and television. Failing that, they also have to devise theories that would make pretty much everyone who isn't them complicit in a conspiracy of silence masking the supposed "true" nature of the supra-national global authority.

But no matter how intricate or comprehensive such theories are, the authors can never rest. Unreality cannot withstand the ever-present and unavoidable contact with actual reality, so the lie must always be reinforced and reconstructed. It must be exhausting. Consider what happens when Tim LaHaye stumbles across a magazine profile of the current secretary-general, Ban Ki-Moon. If he really believes that this man is supreme ruler of the world and not merely a toothless diplomatic figurehead, then it would be irresponsible not to read the article and thereby learn as much as possible about the supposedly Most Powerful Man on Earth. But some part of LaHaye will also realize that such an encounter with reality would be fatal to the beliefs he is struggling to maintain. He knows -- knows -- that he cannot allow himself to read that article if he wants to continue believing the things he wants to continue believing. In other words, he knows -- or at least some part of him knows -- that the things he wants to continue believing are not true.

Whether we call it denial or compartmentalization or cognitive dissonance or willful stupidity, this deliberate self-deception plays a huge role in the authors' view not just of the United Nations, but of the entire world. Left Behind is marked throughout with touches of the overly aggressive sincerity that masks not just unacknowledged doubt, but the unacknowledged knowledge that what they are saying can't be true. This not-quite-successful embrace of contradictions is, for instance, what allows the authors to assert that they are certain the world will come to an end very soon while simultaneously investing their profits in long-term investments and estate planning.

That's a rather long and winding introduction to the passage we're about to examine from LB, but it seemed necessary due to the astonishingly strange and impossible things this passage simply assumes to be true about the United Nations, journalists, pacifists and the entire world.

Nicolae Carpathia is about to announce that he's taking over the world. Buck Wiliams knew this announcement would be happening this very afternoon, but in his new capacity as executive editor of a national newsmagazine he decided that instead of witnessing the event firsthand in Manhattan, he would spend the day hanging out with the staff of his regional Midwest office. But then Buck already knows all about Carpathia's plans and the machinations that allowed him to come to power. In exchange for that inside scoop, he has already promised both Carpathia and Steve Plank that Global Weekly won't report any of it.

Buck camped out in Lucinda Washington's old office, interviewing key people at 20-minute intervals. He also told each about his writing assignment and asked their personal theories of what had happened. ...

More than a week ago (despite its name, GW seems to have the leisurely lead time of a quarterly) Buck was assigned to report on the biggest event in the history of the world. His research so far has consisted of the unsolicited opinions of a doctor in an airport lounge and interviews with two pilots (one chartered, one commercial). Now he is conducting man-on-the-street interviews with his own staff. Buck's idea of reporting doesn't involve shoe-leather or even working the phone. He's working the office intercom. This makes New York Times columnist Tom Friedman's research method -- serendipitous interviews with implausibly quotable cab-drivers -- seem thorough by comparison.

"Near the end of the day," CNN cuts away from Dan Bennett's 24/7 coverage of Chantapalooza at the Western Wall to announce Carpathia's election as Supreme World Leader. Lucinda apparently didn't spring for cable in her newsroom, so Buck invites the staff into her office to watch the report:

"Romanian president Nicolae Carpathia was catapulted into reluctant leadership of the United Nations by a nearly unanimous vote. Carpathia, who insisted on sweeping changes in direction and jurisdiction of the United Nations, in what appeared an effort to gracefully decline the position, became secretary-general here just moments ago."

The apparent "effort to gracefully decline the position" is, of course, a charade. We learned about this earlier when Plank briefed his former colleagues on Carpathia's strategic pose as the humble, reluctant leader. This is a crude attempt to describe a real phenomenon -- such a pose of reluctance is a common tactic employed by some of the least humble, most ambitious political power-seekers. That tactic is rarely as successful in real life as it is here. The authors portray every other diplomat on earth as gullible rubes wholly taken in by Carpathia's clumsy theatrics. Just how gullible becomes clearer when you consider the full extent of those "sweeping changes ... in jurisdiction" that Nicolae made a condition of his "reluctant" acceptance of global sovereignty.

The nameless CNN reporter cuts to an interview with departing secretary-general T'Challa of Wakanda Mwangati Ngumo of Botswana, who seems to indicate that he has remained the leader of that nation throughout his tenure at the U.N.:

"I have long been aware that divided loyalties between my country and the United Nations have made me less effective in each role. I had to choose, and I am first and foremost a Motswana. ..."

Carpathia, likewise, will apparently retain his role as president of Romania while serving as secretary-general. The authors don't see this as noteworthy. They seem to assume that this is standard procedure. One wonders if they believed that Boutros Boutros-Ghali -- secretary-general when this volume was written in 1995 -- was also the Egyptian president (or, as they probably think of that post, "pharaoh").

Then, almost as an afterthought, the CNN reporter turns to Carpathia's oddball list of demands/reforms:

"In only a matter of hours, every request Carpathia had outlined in an early morning press conference was moved as official business, voted upon, and ratified by the body. Within a year the United Nations headquarters will move to New Babylon. The makeup of the Security Council will change to 10 permanent members within the month, and a press conference is expected Monday morning in which Carpathia will introduce several of his personal choices for delegates to that body."

Where to start? The relocation plan is dazzlingly arbitrary. It would've been less strange if Carpathia had instead insisted that the U.N. headquarters be repainted mint green and mauve. ("Well, I'd do the Reichstag bathroom in purples and gold ...")Try to imagine some candidate for president of the United States expressing that he would condescend to grudgingly accept the office, but only on the condition that the capital be relocated from the District of Columbia to the Badlands of South Dakota. The idea is so bizarre that it would be impossible to know how to respond, but surely part of that response would be to ask, "Why there?" No one in LB asks this. The diplomats of the U.N. just cheerfully start packing boxes, apparently eager to leave Manhattan for the exciting environs of an archaeological site in the deserts of Iraq.

Buck and his fellow "journalists" at GW aren't the least bit curious about the hows or whys of this move. Buck already has some idea that Carpathia's sponsors have a financial interest in New Babylon and that this is, in part, a corrupt and blatant real estate development scheme -- but he has, of course, already promised not to report on any of that. His colleagues simply seem to have accepted their role as extras in an End Times novel and thus are comfortable with the authors' notion that the Fulfillment of Prophecy doesn't have to make sense.

The reconstitution of the Security Council would seem like an even bigger deal except that, as we're about to see, Carpathia's remaining condition renders the existence and function of that council irrelevant. As outlandish as both of those "sweeping changes" are, the least plausible part of this passage might actually be the idea that the United Nations was able to act on this entire agenda in a single morning. Arbitrary relocations and global surrender are one thing, but efficiency and unanimity? From the U.N.?

After all of this, the CNN reporter finally gets to his buried lede: The assembled diplomats at the U.N. have, without consultation with their respective governments, begun discussing their unconditional surrender and the elevation of Carpathia to global Caesar:

"There is no guarantee, of course, that even member nations will unanimously go along with the move to destroy 90 percent of their military strength and turn over the remaining 10 percent to the U.N. But several ambassadors expressed their confidence 'in equipping and arming an international peacekeeping body with a thoroughgoing pacifist and committed disarmament activist as its head.'"

The alleged pacifist demands a global monopoly on the use of force -- what's not to trust?

These two sentences may be among the stupidest ever written in the English language. The authors here misuse and misunderstand so many words and concepts -- "pacifist," "nations," "member nations," "the U.N.," "ambassadors," "international," "peacekeeping body" -- that I'm not even sure this counts as the English language.

We'll unpack this astonishingly awful passage at greater length on Friday when we turn to Buck's colleague's response to Carpathia's announcement. That response illustrates an even more dismaying aspect of L&J's deliberate, willful stupidity: Not only have they chosen to pretend to believe many ridiculous and impossible ideas about the United Nations, but they cite these beliefs as support for an even more ridiculous and impossible set of ideas that they have chosen to pretend to believe about the pernicious liberals who don't share their animosity to this imaginary U.N.

Comments

[Geds]

How many different letters does it take to spell Hillary? Six!!! (I know, "L" is in there twice, but it counts as the same letter.)

Ooh, this is always fun.

If Hillary's elected she'll be the 44th President. Bill was the 42nd. Add them together and what do you get? 86. 86 minus 20 (the period of time between the beginning of Bill's first term and the end of Hillary's term) gets you what? 66! Add another 6 for her term of office as a Senator and what do you have? 666!

Aaaaah! Quick! Vote Huckabee before it's too late and you have to choose McCain!

Dan, Ronald Wilson Reagan did it first. And probably a plethora of presidents/candidates before him. There is no new thing under the sun.

On a related subject, just how literal is it to say that the Sea Beast of Revelation, with seven heads and ten horns (so, what? are there several horns on one head?) and ten crowns, is the Antichrist? The Antichrist is a man; the Sea Beast isn't a man. I wanna see a seven-headed beast brand men with the numbers 666, dammit! In the meantime I wanna know how it'll brand at all, since, being a beast, it probably doesn't have opposable thumbs.

And the red dragon in heaven sweeping a third of the stars from the visible sky with its tail? Don't give me that "stars are angels" hooey; I except the night sky to be dimmed for lack of stars.

It's fun and easy to tear down a "literal" reading of apocalyptic literature, huh?

[Geds]

Given a choice, I for one would prefer PMD.

Well, yeah. Tim LaHaye isn't going to be able to get very far if he tries to start a pogrom, so from a sheerly practical standpoint PMDers are better to have around. But as a thought excercise it's an interesting concept.

[Abelardus]

Curse you, typepad! That was me at 1:23.

[Tonio]

If Hillary's elected she'll be the 44th President. Bill was the 42nd. Add them together and what do you get? 86. 86 minus 20 (the period of time between the beginning of Bill's first term and the end of Hillary's term) gets you what? 66! Add another 6 for her term of office as a Senator and what do you have? 666!

I know someone who converted to fundamentalism after reading about numerology and the Bible.

[Calli Arcale]

Oh, this is priceless! I'm glad I've stumbled upon this blog. As an English major, I love deconstructions of crappy fiction. ;-)

I've never had the stomach for Left Behind. Back-of-the-book synopses were enough to convince me it'd just disgust me. Now that I know how crappy it is, I'm almost tempted to read it for entertainment -- luckily, your blog allows me to sample its hideousness without having to be disgusted by the actual content.

The most I know about them is what my pastor has said about them in church. He's read some of them. (He's not the type to criticize something he hasn't read, and he's big on learning the other side's point of view.) He really really really REALLY doesn't like them, because they typify what's most wrong with Christianity today.

[Geds]

I know someone who converted to fundamentalism after reading about numerology and the Bible.

At one point in the not-so-far-off-in-the-past-as-I'd-like-to-admit (hee hee, lotsa hyphens) I heard one of the respected old gray-hairs of my church explain how Biblical numerology proved that the end would come before he dies. Unfortunately at the time I "understood" numerology enough to actually believe him.

I've come to a much better understanding of numerology since then and wouldn't believe it again. Of course, over the last few months I realized that he's one of those guys who makes it a point to make sure that young Christians of the new generation are behaving appropriately.

[Geds]

over the last few months I realized that he's one of those guys who makes it a point to make sure that young Christians of the new generation are behaving appropriately.

Oops, that's an unfinished thought there.

I've lost massive amounts of respect for any number of my former Christian elders. He was the only one I really wanted to start an argument with, though. Eventually I decided it was better to stop paying attention to him.

[aunursa]

Geds: How are PMDs using Israel or Jews as pawns? Is it your belief that PMDs support Israel exclusively or primarily because of its position in PMD theology?

[Geds]

Is it your belief that PMDs support Israel exclusively or primarily because of its position in PMD theology?

Yes, actually (to the primarily one). Although, to be fair, I was originally using arguments I'd read elsewhere.

Combine the widespread support of Israel amongst PMDers with attitudes like the one I wrote briefly above that the whole thing is proof that Jesus is comin' back real soon and there really aren't too many other conclusions to draw. I've heard enough of the rhetoric to connect the dots.

There may not be an explicit anti-semitism in it, but the folks who are searching for the end times want Israel to stick around to fulfill Biblical prophecy. And since the Jewish people will either have to accept and become like everyone else or be cast to the lake of fire...

It's not really a new Holocaust, I guess. It's more like the above thing you mentioned where the UN makes a special deal with Israel to give them, uh, everything they already had in exchange for something they didn't have to give up. Everyone who isn't Christian can be converted or wiped out, but the Jews get a special place in the continuum.

[Technomad]

Personally, I'm against the UN because it's basically the old League of Nations, just with a new name and a little different membership. "It stinks? Change its name!" isn't just a Mad Ave slogan any more.

Also, in about 90% of the cases I'm aware of, the UN's meddling merely made things worse. Matter of fact, about the only time that I can think of where it made things better was the Korean War---and that only happened because the USSR was having a temper tantrum when the motion was passed. If they hadn't been, the UN would have been about as useful as a pre-millenial dispensationalist at a MENSA meeting. *rimshot*

It doesn't even facilitate international contacts; there are these things, you see, called embassies and ambassadors that do that. In fact, I've read that while, forex, the US and Mexico have many, many issues they have to discuss, for either side to bring them before the UN would be considered a very hostile move, because it would merely be an opportunity for every other country in the world, none of which have much to do with these issues, sticking their oars in.

[Tonio]

Somewhat related question - what pronunciation did you learn for Babel? I never heard the word in Sunday school, and I had always heard it in my head as "baa-BELL." In the movie version of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, the actor playing Ford Prefect said it as "BAY-bull" (referring to the babelfish). My wife had heard it in Catholic school as "BAA-bull" like the English word "babble."

[mcc]

To maintain their beliefs about the U.N., the authors need to avoid all newspapers, magazines and television.

To be completely fair here, modern journalists have made it extremely easy to in fact consume an enormous amount of U.S. news media while learning absolutely nothing about the U.N. in the process.

[aunursa]

Combine the widespread support of Israel amongst PMDers with attitudes like the one I wrote briefly above that the whole thing is proof that Jesus is comin' back real soon and there really aren't too many other conclusions to draw ... [T]he folks who are searching for the end times want Israel to stick around to fulfill Biblical prophecy.

PMDs also believe that widespread apostasy and (what they consider to be) a decline in moral values, not to mention (as indicated in this thread) a super-powerful United Nations all will figure prominently in their end-times theology. Yet PMDs are not attempting to promote (what they consider to be) false religions, pornography, prostitution, or the UN.

The folks who are searching for the end times don't just want Israel to stick around, they believe that Israel will remain around -- yes, to fulfill Biblical prophecy -- but also for other reasons. In other words, they believe it to be in God's hands, not theirs.

[Elmo]

Regarding the view of the U.N. given by L&J
The secretary-general is thus the precursor to the coming Antichrist and the U.N. is a precursor to his One World Government.

I have met people who hold that opinion -- or one very close to it. In their world view (as I try to understand it by twisting my brain into knots until it hurts) the U.N. is trying to become the One World Government which will enslave America. There used to be a wonderful billboard on the south side of I-10 in Houston (visible while westbound between downtown and the 610 loop) showing black helicopters and with a toll free number to call if you wanted to join the fight to keep America free.

Timmy and Jerry are pandering to an audience which is disposed to that point of view. I suspect that the majority of the books are purchased by true believers who use the Left Behind books like Chick Tracts to help persuade the unbelievers. So it's only natural that they would present a scenario that, while patently implausible, is one that their audience suspects is true.

[Tonio]

There may not be an explicit anti-semitism in it, but the folks who are searching for the end times want Israel to stick around to fulfill Biblical prophecy. And since the Jewish people will either have to accept and become like everyone else or be cast to the lake of fire...

The other offensive aspect is that it treats Israelis as faceless extras in the End Times play. It suggests that the PMDers don't care about the Israelis as people.

[arghous]

And the red dragon in heaven sweeping a third of the stars from the visible sky with its tail? Don't give me that "stars are angels" hooey; I except the night sky to be dimmed for lack of stars.

It's fun and easy to tear down a "literal" reading of apocalyptic literature, huh?

What took you so long? You could know that from the get-go: the wierd glowing being (who soon is shown to be Jesus) is holding seven stars in his hand. Yes! Seven million-mile-wide balls of glowing, exploding, fusing Hydrogen in his hand. That's one big hand. Don't the stars burn him? Why don't they coalesce into one huge star from the incredible gravitational forces due to them being so close to one another in his hand? Man, this literalism stuff is hard.

But wait -- the stars are churches -- literally! Oh, hold on. No, the lamp stands are churches. I'm so confused.

[lou]

Because that's the biggest really super obvious thing they have to ignore, is that if you're looking for a New Rome, and you're looking for a likely candidate to institute a one-world government, and you're looking for a nation head to be a plausible Antichrist -- HELLO, United States of America!

It used to be the thing among arch-conservatives like Taylor Caldwell (anyone remember her) to say that America was the New Rome. When I was a youngster being raised in such a church, some used to joke that Henry Kissinger was a likely candidate for being the AC. That was when PMD-ers still believed the AC would be Jewish, born in Bethlehem. Judging from Left Behind descriptions from Fred, that doesn't seem to be true anymore.

On the relationship between PMDers and Israel, I don't think it's a matter of just hoping the Last Days, they are a'coming and the nation of Israel is the sign. The folks I grew up with genuinely believe that the US is blessed by God because of its support of Israel. It ties in with PMD, but indirectly.

[Geds]

Yet PMDs are not attempting to promote (what they consider to be) false religions, pornography, prostitution, or the UN.

Ah, but there's a distinction between moral depravity and the Jewish state. They believe the moral decline is an inevitable outcome of the whole fallen world thing. Israel sticking around is not an inevitablity, however.

If they think it's just going to stay until god's good time, why do they make Israeli policy an important part of their political ideology? Moreover, why would they have a pro-Israel rally like the one discussed at length in Christopher Hedges' book? There is plenty in the PMD attitude toward Israel that gives pause and brings in the possibility of ulterior motives.

[Jeff Weskamp]

"As for why LaHaye can keep such a preposterous view of the UN, it's actually fairly simple - he just needs to selectively read literature. There's been a rather paranoid vein of American belief over the past 60 years (which reached its height during the 1950s and early 1960s, but continued as a very minoritarian view) that the UN is an "agent of communism" designed to rob the US of its freedom and capitalistic goodness, and turn it over to the Godless Communists." -- Brett

That view of the UN was primarily promoted by the John Birch Society, of which Tim LaHaye was a founding member.

Another sign of LaHaye's total disconnect from poltical reality: the UN delegates in LB apparently have the authority to decide if their governments will yield power to Emperor Carpathia! Maybe LaHaye really DOES believe that the UN delegates are the rulers of their nations.

[practicallyevil]

What kind of Anti-Christ can he possibly be if he can't pull 100% of the vote? That's worse than Stalin.

Some member nation suffering an Event related crisis at home just sent in a vote of "present."

But then comes the biggest problem: how, exactly do you find the people to actually man the weapons you've now had turned over?

An army of mind controlled civilians? If Cobra Commander could do it so could Nicky Carpathia, he wouldn't even need to sub-contract with Destro.

[Sarah Jane]

Now I'm growing curious about the fascination with Israel, because I definitely know a number of fundamentalist types who are VERY interested in Israel (studying its history, visiting on numerous occasions, etc.) A friend's family actually moved to Israel some years back, apparently out of religious conviction. I always understood Jesus' teachings to apply to all of humanity, so it does seem odd that Israel would be given such a special place in Christian doctrine. I can understand a certain reverence for Judaism, as the faith which gave birth to my own, but that doesn't seem to be the way fundamentalists relate to "the Jews" at all.

I guess I don't have much to add to the conversation, but I'd like to hear others' ideas on the Israel/Judaism fascination.

Tonio, here in Kentucky/Indiana, Babel, Babylon, and babble are all given the same pronounciation. However, we also say the same thing for hill, heal, and heel, so you might take that with a grain of salt. ;)

[mcc]

What are they going to DO with the 10% of the weapons? I mean, yeah, I know, use them against the unarmed citizenry of the One World Nation, but really, if everyone has agreed to, in essence, totally disarm, what does the U.N. need weapons FOR? Against the UFO's? Or maybe they'll respond instantly to rabid dog and wild bear calls all over the world?

Well, what I immediately wonder about is, do local law enforcement personnel still get to keep their weaponry? Some U.S. riot and counterterrorism police units seem as far as I can tell to be approaching military-grade capabilities, and in some developing nations the distinction between the police and the army is essentially absent. If there's a place where the police use tanks, and all the tanks are destroyed or turned over to the U.N., who does the policing? Does Carpathia's U.N. step in to do that, at 10% of the previous force?

I mean, we all know, because we've read the LB book jackets, that the ultimate endgoal of this plan is one world government, but Carpathia isn't admitting this out loud yet and this isn't one expects supposed to be accomplished in one single step. But if you hand control of the world's armies over to a single entity, then therefore, in those states where the army controls the government, then you've just... what?

--- --- --- ---

Then of course there's the question of what happens to the arms of all those forces, say Al Qaeda, which aren't governments and therefore aren't part of the U.N.. How do you get them to just give their arms away? The answer is, well, you can't, so this must be the answer to what happens to the 10% forces the U.N. holds, they're running around containing the private actors who aren't part of the U.N. and therefore didn't disarm. But of course this assumes that 10% of the world's current military force is sufficient to keep the non-state actors in check-- considering that many of the major military conflicts in the world right now are against non-state actors and 100% of the U.S. military is currently engaged against non-state actors, it might not be. But then of course this plan also then has to assume (getting a little bit here back to potential blurs in the army/police distinction) that governments currently engaged in military conflict with non-state actors, for example I don't know Pakistan, won't balk at the disarmament plan in the first place due to concerns over whether the U.N. force can or will successfully complete their ongoing conflicts with independent militants once all the governments have disarmed.

(This last point may be a little unfair to snipe at: although there are some things about the near future, like cell phones, that there's no excuse for L&J failing to see coming, it seems reasonable that they failed to forsee that within ten years of LB being written the arguable primary miiltary concern worldwide would be non-state actors. That development, after all, caught a lot of people by surprise. On the other hand, for people so focused on Israel, you'd think they'd have noticed that Israel in particular has been for long stretches of time more concerned with nonstates than states from a security perspective since, I don't know, the 70s or something, and therefore Israel in particular would be uniquely ill-served by a global state disarmament plan. Or maybe that's just assumed not to matter in the LB timeline, since Hezbollah has long since been bought out with the miracle-gro formula?)

[damnedyankee]

This talk of cricket has put me to mind of this weird little tidbit of Hitchhiker's Guide/Doctor Who history.

[aunursa]

Israel sticking around is not an inevitablity, however.

But they believe that God will protect the Jewish state until the Tribulation.

If they think it's just going to stay until god's good time, why do they make Israeli policy an important part of their political ideology?

Have you ever seen any of those late-night infomercials with the rabbi who calls for Christians to donate to bring Jews from Russia to Israel? Several prominent PMDs appear in them, often citing Genesis 12:3 to convince faithful Christians to open up their wallets. If you are correct, they should be citing from Revelation. But they don't. Why not?

mcc: Well, what I immediately wonder about is, do local law enforcement personnel still get to keep their weaponry?

In the latter books all law enforcement is handled by the Global Community (formerly known as the United Nations.)

[aunursa]

anonymous at 3:49 is me.

[aunursa]

Geds,

Can you find any PMD literature or prominent website that calls for Christians to support Israel and cites as a reason for said support that Israel's existence is necessary for Jesus to return?

[Tonio]

the UN delegates in LB apparently have the authority to decide if their governments will yield power to Emperor Carpathia! Maybe LaHaye really DOES believe that the UN delegates are the rulers of their nations.

This could also be explained as the delegates and world leaders all being under the Antichrist spell. Do the later books give any indication of Carpathia getting his mojo working worldwide?

[mcc]

But they believe that God will protect the Jewish state until the Tribulation.

Come to think of it, if there are people who actually believe this, then what do they think that God was doing between the years of 637 and 1948?

In the latter books all law enforcement is handled by the Global Community (formerly known as the United Nations.)

Right, but the Global Community doesn't exist yet, does it? Isn't there some period between the inception of Carpathia's disarmament plan and the unveiling of the full Global Community sometime in the second book? Or is the idea that the disarmament plan takes long enough to complete that by the time it's ready to get going the GC is in place, or the U.N.'s extension into local services as the GC is done under the auspices of the disarmament plan...?

[aunursa]

if there are people who actually believe this, then what do they think that God was doing between the years of 637 and 1948?

Evangelical Christians believe that God was punishing the Jewish people for rejecting Jesus.
Orthodox Jews believe that God was punishing the Jewish people for various sins.

Both groups cite biblical prophecy that (they claim) predicted Israel's creation (in 1948) and control of Jerusalem (in 1967.)

[aunursa]

Isn't there some period between the inception of Carpathia's disarmament plan and the unveiling of the full Global Community sometime in the second book?

C'mon. You think a little triviality like that is going to bother L&J?

[mcc]

Incidentally, the current wikipedia page for "Global Community" describes this situation in an interesting way:

"Reluctantly" accepting the office, Carpathia calls for all nations to destroy 90% of their weapons and donate the remaining 10% to the United Nations. For unknown reasons, they do so.

[cminus]

I've figured out why Nicky Sierra Nevada didn't get a unanimous vote confirming his election to Lord Supreme High Poobah In Charge of Everything. One delegate probably said "Y'know, I like his disarmament plan, and I can kinda see moving us to Iraq, but this marking everyone's forehead with a 666 thing, well, I really don't know . . . ."

I suspect it was, coincidentally enough, the delegate from Israel, who worried that the third part of Nicky Bungle Bungle's proposal would violate Leviticus 19:28.

[Chris]

"For unknown reasons, they do so."

I must be very tired, because this made me laugh.

[mcc]

There are days when I believe that Wikipedia Deadpan is the finest form of humor ever devised.

[damnedyankee]

This week's band name: "The Unknown Reasons"

[Caravelle]

Come to think of it, if there are people who actually believe this, then what do they think that God was doing between the years of 637 and 1948?

Punishing the Jews because they had been wicked, and complained that life was too hard, that God wasn't helping them enough, that they'd better worship that idol over there. As usual. Obviously.

[cminus]

Tonio, here in Kentucky/Indiana, Babel, Babylon, and babble are all given the same pronounciation. However, we also say the same thing for hill, heal, and heel, so you might take that with a grain of salt. ;)

Back home in Michigan/Indiana, "Babel" got a long "a" while "Babylon" and "babble" did not. Proof, were any more needed, I guess, that the stretch along Indiana's northern edge from Lake County in the west to St. Joseph County in the east isn't really a part of Indiana.

(We also pronounced "hill" differently from "heal" and "heel." More proof!)

[bulbul]

aunursa,

does this count?

There are three key reasons why Christians must support Israel.

* For Humanitarian Reasons.

* For Political Reasons. The State of Israel has the only true democratic system of government in the entire Middle East and has been America's most faithful supporter in the region.

* For Religious Reasons. The founding of Israel as a nation in 1948 was ordained of God to provide a homeland for the Jewish people and to prepare for the future return of Jesus Christ. The Abrahamic Covenant demands it.

[bulbul]

And what about this:

It is a belief among some Christians that the return of Jews to Israel is in line with a biblical prophecy, and is necessary for Jesus to return to Earth as its king.

[bulbul]

Orthodox Jews believe that God was punishing the Jewish people for various sins.
What do you believe?

[aunursa]

Here's the website for Christians United for Israel

Here is a brochure for Christian Friends of Israel

Feel free to cite where these groups call for Christians to support Israel because the Jewish state is needed to bring about the Tribulation or the Second Coming.

[Tonio]

between the years of 637 and 1948

Interesting that you chose the starting date as the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem and not the end of Jewish-Roman wars. Were there many Jews left in the area when the Muslims arrives?

Evangelical Christians believe that God was punishing the Jewish people for rejecting Jesus.
Orthodox Jews believe that God was punishing the Jewish people for various sins.

Both beliefs are repugnant in principle. But the first one is much more so because they're applying it to other people and because it was used to justify persecution of Jews.

[Tonio]

when the Muslims arrives?

Help me - the Antichrist mojo has corrupted my grammar!

[Geds]

Can you find any PMD literature or prominent website that calls for Christians to support Israel and cites as a reason for said support that Israel's existence is necessary for Jesus to return?

Why, yes. You can look it up yourself if you just Google Christian Zionism. You could also look up John Hagee, check in on the dominionists or pay attention to Tim LaHaye on the topic.

Moreover, I have personal experience with actual, honest to [insert deity here] evangelicals and fundamentalists who have said it or things to that effect. I can't cite exact instances, so I went with Christopher Hedges' book as my original discussion starter, but believe you me, I've heard it before.

There are Christians out there who believe in supporting Israel in order to bring about prophecy. These same Christians also believe that the Jews won't be allowed in to Heaven because they don't believe the right thing. Connect the freaking dots.

[aunursa]

bulbul: It is a belief among some Christians that the return of Jews to Israel is in line with a biblical prophecy, and is necessary for Jesus to return to Earth as its king.

That merely states a Christian belief, not a reason for Zionist support. And it's a Jewish website, not Christian.

* For Religious Reasons. The founding of Israel as a nation in 1948 was ordained of God to provide a homeland for the Jewish people and to prepare for the future return of Jesus Christ. The Abrahamic Covenant demands it.

That's a little more promising quote. However Falwell emphasizes the Abrahamic Covenant (God gave the land to the Jewish people) over the Second Coming. There's no explicit indication that Christians should support Israel in order to help bring about the SC.

[Geds]

Feel free to cite where these groups call for Christians to support Israel because the Jewish state is needed to bring about the Tribulation or the Second Coming.

So because you can find two groups that don't believe something, you're going to rule it out as a possibility for everything? Allow me to quote Fred Clark:

That would be a lot of work. It would be difficult to do that much work without it being at least somewhat deliberate.

Because you, sir, are Scott-like in your willful obstinance on this particular topic.

[mcc]

Interesting that you chose the starting date as the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem and not the end of Jewish-Roman wars.

Well, truth be told, I just skimmed the Encarta entry on Palestine, Ancient and picked a plausible-sounding date. I do appear to have picked the wrong one.

[bulbul]

That merely states a Christian belief, not a reason for Zionist support.
Isn't that the same thing? If these Christians believe X is necessary for Y (Y being VERY important to their faith), then they are bound by that tenet to support a group of people Z which strives to bring about X.

And it's a Jewish website, not Christian.
Yep, I noticed the "jewish" bit in the address, too :)