L.B.: Passionate sincerity

Left Behind, pp. 421-423

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity

We left Buck Williams sitting in his car parked in front of New Hope Village Church, "his head in his hands." And there he sits for the next page, musing about how his carefully planned and ordered life had been knocked off balance by recent events:

But nothing had prepared him for the disappearances or for the violent deaths of his friends. While he should have been prepared for this promotion, that hadn't been part of his plan, either.

Any hint of the lasting emotional or existential effects of The Event are rare and welcome in Left Behind. The near total absence of any such effects is one of the strangest of this awful book's many defects. Two billion people get disintegrated in a flash, instantaneously transforming the planet into a world without children, and those that remain simply go back to work and get on with their week untroubled, their previous routines unaltered. A heavy snowfall would have more effect than The Event seems to have had in this book. Instead of a world in mourning, an endless string of memorial services and funerals for empty caskets (most very small), we get a world without any memorials or remembrances for the departed.

So I'm glad to hear Buck at least mention the disappearances as part of the list of things for which he was unprepared. Maybe it shouldn't have been mentioned in a way that suggests this global trauma wasn't a bigger deal than Buck's unexpected promotion, but at least he mentioned it.

We know the names of the friends Buck mentions who died violently -- Dirk Burton and Alan Tompkins. Calling Tompkins his "friend" seems a bit of an overstatement, since Buck only met the man a few hours before he was blown up by a car bomb intended for Buck. Yet he has thought of Tompkins repeatedly -- often enough that if he said that the loss of this man "tugged at his heart almost constantly" we might actually believe him. We couldn't believe Buck when he said that about the loss of his niece and nephew on the one occasion they seem to have crossed his mind. We don't know the names of those relatives. I doubt Buck does either.

Finally, with a last burst of trepidation ("he felt alone, exposed, vulnerable … he felt a bone weariness as he headed for the church"), Buck goes inside.

It was a pleasant surprise to find that Bruce Barnes was someone near Buck's own age. He seemed bright and earnest, having that same authority and passion Rayford Steele exhibited.

By now readers have to be wondering if these are the only adjectives Jerry Jenkins knows. (Police Officer: "Did you get a good look at the suspect?" Jenkins: "He seemed sincere. And passionate.") The point the authors are trying to pound home through this passionate and sincere refrain, I suspect, is that these are the characteristics that they believe every good Christian man should have: Passion and sincerity. The "authority" mentioned above is the product of those two attributes: Sincerity + Passion = Authority.

That arithmetic only works if you accept, as the authors apparently do, that one cannot be sincerely and passionately wrong. That may be why they assume that everyone they consider to be wrong or in the wrong -- i.e., you, me and every other non-RTC -- must be insincere.

It had been a long time since Buck had been in a church. This one seemed innocuous enough, fairly new and modern, neat and efficient. He and the young pastor met in a modest office.

Scene-setting descriptions of place are rare in this book. We got a similar quick sketch of Irene Steele's country-kitsch bedroom decor and of Stanton Bailey's banker-ish, polished-brass office, but compared to most scenes in this book the above description of New Hope Village Church seems detailed and expansive.

This description tells us little about what the outside or inside of the church actually looks like, but I suspect that's not really the point. The point, rather, is to present a series of opposites to underscore that New Hope isn't like those other churches Buck might have been in years ago. Those weren't Real True churches. Thus where NHVC is "new and modern" those other churches are old and hidebound to tradition. Where the real church is "neat and efficient" and "modest," the false churches of the left behind are cluttered, inefficient (not cranking out the product) and immodest. All of that makes such churches, in the authors' view, anything but "innocuous."

"Your friends, the Steeles, told me you might call," Barnes said.

Buck was struck by his honesty. In the world in which Buck moved, he might have kept that information to himself, that edge. But he realized the pastor had no interest in edge. There was nothing to hide here. In essence, Buck was looking for information and Bruce was interested in providing it.

I don't see how withholding such information might provide any "edge," but I suppose that's just evidence that I wouldn't have what it takes to get by in "the world in which Buck moved" -- a world of cut-throat conversational chess where the stakes are high and the slightest mistake, such as mentioning that "your friends ... told me you might call," could leave you vulnerable to a fatal blow. ("Hello," the stranger said. Buck was about to respond in kind, but then he caught himself. That's just what he'd expect me to say. ...)

"I want to tell you right off," Bruce said, "that I am aware of your work and respect your talent. But to be frank, I no longer have time for the pleasantries and small talk that used to characterize my work. We live in perilous times. ..."

We should note again here that Bruce's earlier work was the role of "visitation pastor" for NHVC. That somewhat euphemistic title refers to ministers who spend their days not at the church, but in nursing homes, hospitals and hospices, by the bedsides of the sick, the suffering and the dying. "Perilous times" shouldn't be anything new for Bruce Barnes. "Perilous times" was his job description. "Pleasantries and small talk" might have their place in such ministry, but they could never be said to "characterize" that work. Further confirmation of something we have already seen: Bruce Barnes was a terrible visitation pastor.

"... We live in perilous times. I have a message and an answer for people genuinely seeking. I tell everyone in advance that I have quit apologizing for what I'm going to say. If that's a ground rule you can live with, I have all the time you need."

Bruce's long apology for why he's speaking unapologetically demonstrates a refreshing urgency. He knows that the world is going to end in less than seven years and that the remaining six years, 355 days are going to be marked by a series of unpleasant events each outdoing the last in mass casualties. He should be speaking urgently -- probably even more urgently than he speaks here. This would be a good time for what Richard Clarke memorably described as "running around town with your hair on fire."

Imagine that you were transported back in time to Christmas Eve of 2004. The stockings hang from the mantel, the pregnant pile of presents sits under the tree, A Christmas Story plays for the umpteenth time on TBS. And, unknown to anyone but you, the visitor from the future, hundreds of thousands of people from Madagascar to Malaysia have less than 24 hours to live. Wouldn't you maybe, I don't know, call someone and try to warn the world of what was about to happen? For that matter if, at that very moment, the executive editor from a prominent national newsmagazine were to walk into your home, wouldn't you consider that an opportunity to get the word out?

But Bruce doesn't really seem interested here in getting the word out. He knows that unrelenting calamity and mass death are about to happen on a global scale, but he's not looking for a way to warn the world of this impending doom. He's looking, instead, for a select few potential new members to initiate into his secret club, some few who have been carefully vetted and found worthy of hearing the full truth of what's coming. "I have a message and an answer," Bruce said, but then immediately qualifies that, "for people genuinely seeking." Seekers who are not "genuine" -- not sufficiently sincere and passionate -- need not apply. Bruce has no message and no answers for them.

A few pages ago, Bruce sat in this same office with the Steeles attempting to reinvent and rebuild the church from scratch. The model they chose didn't come from Pentecost but from the Pentagon -- "a sort of Green Berets." Buck arrives, the authors tell us, "looking for information and Bruce was interested in providing it," but that's not really what's going on here. Bruce is interested in screening Buck as a potential recruit. He's interested in providing just enough information to get him signed up, but much of what Bruce knows about the events of the coming months and years is information that Bruce seems to consider classified, only to be shared on a "need to know" basis.

Contrast Bruce's approach with that of the Jerusalem street preachers, LB's version of the Two Witnesses from the book of Revelation. Their message and answer is a monotonous chanted slogan, which hardly seems likely to persuade, but at least they're taking it public and not warily sizing up their listeners according to whether or not they seem to be "genuinely seeking."

We readers know, of course, that the authors have rigged the game and thus the answer that Bruce and the street preachers have is the right answer. But what about those who have latched onto the wrong answers? Ten days after The Event one would expect to find street preachers everywhere -- crackpot theorists, Max-Fennig-like alleged victims of alien abduction, and unhinged former parents turning every intersection into the Hyde Park Speaker's Corner. People walking around in "The End Is Near" sandwich-board signs would be as common in real life as in New Yorker cartoons. The Event would have revived and reinvigorated doomsday cults, dragging them out into the open where their sincere and passionate devotees would assault passersby, shouting, "I have a message and an answer!"

None of that happens here, of course, because, again: A) it would force the authors to explain how such people could be sincere and passionate, yet still wrong, and B) as we've seen, every character in the story seems to have read the back of the book and to know that they're in a premillennial dispensationalist novel in which the PMD End Times fantasy is true.

B does not result in spontaneous mass conversions, I suppose, because, as A indicates, the unsaved are also insincere -- they know they're wrong, but they choose, deliberately, to reject what they know is true. I don't know that the authors would put it that starkly, but that seems to be the underlying assumption for their characterization of all non-RTCs.

This makes sense when you consider the fate that the authors sincerely and passionately believe awaits all non-RTCs. I'm guessing that all of that mayhem, destruction and torment -- followed by an infinity of even worse mayhem, destruction and torment -- becomes easier to stomach if you convince yourself that its victims have deliberately and knowingly chosen such a fate.

Comments

[Raj]

JOY TO THE WORLD, LB FRIDAY HAS COME!!!!!!!

Joy! Joy!

Max-Fennig-like

Aw, man. You get me every time with references like that.

[infernalserpent]

Anon at 1:20 was me. TypePad hates me today!

[infernalserpent]

Anon at 1:20 was me. TypePad hates me today!

[Raj]

Not only that, but I got in the 1st LB Friday post this time! And I am but a little child in the LB Friday community!

OK, OK, now I'll actually read Fred's post and say something more profound later.

[Vermic]

Bruce Barnes is Buck's age (only 30)? I'd been picturing him closer to Rayford's middle age all this time. Good thing Rayford doesn't have any more eligible daughters!

[Eric]

I just found this blog a few days ago and love it. I think its great what you are doing to these books.

[Blackadder]

I agree. The only better thing that could be done with these books would be to burn them and stomp the ashes. That wouldn't be good for quite as many laughs though.

[Blackadder]

I agree. The only better thing that could be done with these books would be to burn them and then stomp the ashes. That wouldn't be good for quite as many laughs though.

[Blackadder]

I agree. The only better thing that could be done with these books would be to burn them and then stomp the ashes. That wouldn't be good for quite as many laughs though.

[Blackadder]

Whoah! How did that happen?

Sorry!

[Hysterical Woman]

What about the sincere but dispassionate?

[Bugmaster]

Behold ! The second coming of Fred ! Hallelujah !

Welcome back, Fred :-)

[Hysterical Woman]

What about the sincere but dispassionate?

[Wakboth]

That "everybody is a RTC in their heart, but they're ignoring God because they're EEEEVIL" thing is something I've never, ever been able to comprehend. How can anyone with any genuine experience with other people - especially people who aren't like you - believe that, even for a moment?

And then, depressingly, the obvious answer hits me...

[Blackadder]

TypePad hates me too. Passionately and sincerely.

[Jesurgislac]

Hooray! Welcome back, Fred!

Imagine that you were transported back in time to Christmas Eve of 2004. The stockings hang from the mantel, the pregnant pile of presents sits under the tree, A Christmas Story plays for the umpteenth time on TBS. And, unknown to anyone but you, the visitor from the future, hundreds of thousands of people from Madagascar to Malaysia have less than 24 hours to live. Wouldn't you maybe, I don't know, call someone and try to warn the world of what was about to happen? For that matter if, at that very moment, the executive editor from a prominent national newsmagazine were to walk into your home, wouldn't you consider that an opportunity to get the word out?

Probably not.

[Cheezits]

It was a pleasant surprise to find that Bruce Barnes was someone near Buck's own age.

Again with the age thing.

He seemed bright and earnest, having that same authority and passion Rayford Steele exhibited.

How can he tell that just by looking at him? And didn't Carpathia exude authority and passion too?

Buck was struck by his honesty.

Buck seems to be awfully easy to strike.

[Blackadder]

I want to strike Buck. Passionately and sincerely.

[Eric]

I just found this blog a few days ago and I love it. I think its great what you are doing with this series.

[Smurf]

I recently saw Left Behind: the Movie, and compared to this, it's a masterpiece. Hell, if it had been slightly more cohesive it would have been a decent movie in its own right. Buck is not a creepy little bastard, Nicky McEverest is set up as having creepy antichrist mojo, and Ray is not nearly so big a dickweed.

[Bruce in South Florida]

I still say that every time you use the word "sincere" that many times in this blog and in this context it reminds me of Linus sitting his pumpkin patch, believing that if it was the "most sincere" the Great Pumpkin would visit him that night...

[Ursula L]

This makes sense when you consider the fate that the authors sincerely and passionately believe awaits all non-RTCs. I'm guessing that all of that mayhem, destruction and torment -- followed by an infinity of even worse mayhem, destruction and torment -- becomes easier to stomach if you convince yourself that its victims have deliberately and knowingly chosen such a fate.

You also have to ignore any possible sincerity from non-RTCs, because, after an event like the Rapture, a significant chunk of those who here the post-Rapture-converted-RTC's message are apt to reject it even if they believe it.

Or at least, reject the idea that such a god is good, and worthy of respect. And do so with complete sincerity - I sincerely believe a god that would rip a billion small children away from the parents they love and depend on, and who will disappear responsible adults while they are carrying out life-and-death tasks like flying a plane, must be evil.

The actions they credit to god are so evil that they can't sell them on their merits, and they have to actively undermine any criticism as being insincere, because such criticism is very, very sincere. If you give any credit or respect to an emotional reaction to the Rapture other than the approved RTC reaction, you're opening a can of worms that even the bes writer could never close.

The only way to deal with post-Rapture non-RTC reactions is to dismiss it as insincere, in hopes that the reader/audience/congregation will not look beyond the claimed insincerity to consider if it is right.

[vanya]

I'm probably a bad person but I had the same reaction as Jesurgislac. If I was magically transported to December 2004 I'd probably just start calling sports bookies and my broker. It honestly wouldn't cross my mind to warn anyone about a tsunami 10 thousand miles away. I admire people like Fred who can get so engaged in the abstraction of people dying whom they've never met, I seem to be missing that. People die every minute of every day - I can't seem to get that worked up about large scale natural disasters. If I was transported to 9/10/01, that would be different - I would be calling everyone I know to get the word out.

[ohiolibrarian]

Imagine that you were transported back in time to Christmas Eve of 2004. The stockings hang from the mantel, the pregnant pile of presents sits under the tree, A Christmas Story plays for the umpteenth time on TBS. And, unknown to anyone but you, the visitor from the future, hundreds of thousands of people from Madagascar to Malaysia have less than 24 hours to live. Wouldn't you maybe, I don't know, call someone and try to warn the world of what was about to happen? For that matter if, at that very moment, the executive editor from a prominent national newsmagazine were to walk into your home, wouldn't you consider that an opportunity to get the word out?

Not if it was the GIRAT who apparently never turns in a story and frequently promises to keep stuff out of print.

Glad you're back! All unpacked? (That was a joke).

[Chris]

"Buck was about to respond in kind, but then he caught himself. That's just what he'd expect me to say. ..."

Who else thought of Rex Kramer in Airplane? :)

[PurpleGirl]

Another great post, Fred. Yeah, these authors have no idea about out things really work or how people behave. They see everything through their ideological lens. I remember how dazed people were when JFK was killed, the first bombing of the World Trade Center (I was unemployed and watched the rescue and response for hours on TV), and the emotions and actions after September 11th, being part of vigils outside the building where the family of one of the lost firemen lived. (The young probie, 3 months on the job, was raised in the housing development where I live.) People become zombie-like going through motions of life while they try to understand and come to terms with events. Life actions may continue or they may not, but there's something missing in their spirit.

In one of those coindences of life, I'm eating lunch at my desk, reading the post, and listening to a Judy Collins CD. The song -- Amazing Grace. On the same CD is Turn, Turn, Turn (playing now).

[Technomad]

Last Friday, some friends of mine and I went to the big annual used-book sale sponsored by Planned Parenthood. On one table, there were a big pile of books by Lahaye and Jenkins. Nobody touched them.

Do you know why?

Because they were...LEFT BEHIND!

[Jack Chick laugh ON]
HAW HAW HAW!
[Jack Chick laugh OFF]

*exit, stage left, cackling hysterically*

[MikhailBorg]

If time-travel SF has taught us anything, it's that alarm-sounders from the future are prevented from spreading the word by technological failures, disbelief, or simple bad luck. Oh sure, one or two might be protected, but that's it.

Being a Time Lord helps a bit... but not much.

[Richard]

Hysterical Woman wrote:
What about the sincere but dispassionate?

Sloth is a deadly sin. No heaven for them.

-Richard

[RickRS]

Oh man, I feel shamed:

Christmas Eve 2004? If you hadn't provided the hint in the next sentence, my thoughts would never turned to the tsumami that killed so many thousands.

Them: Hey! A visitor from the future! What do you have for us?

Me: Nothing much, let's open presents!

[The Old Maid]

Yes, the "recruiting" and "screening" elements are more obvious here. But it sounds different from Mary Steenbergen and Constance Zimmer in Joan of Arcadia, season two:

MS: "I attended 12 years of Catholic school so if you have a short version, we can use that."

CZ: "And go directly to what, fundraising?"

MS: "You are not being very nice."

CZ: "I just need to know why you're doing this. It's part of the process."

MS: "Oh, so you're screening people now?"

CZ: (wins argument in which she concludes MS is trying to get it over with, rather than asking how to start a lifelong right relationship with God.)

Will have to come back to this one later.

BTW, the site looks different, more click-intensive. Don't know if it's anything our host can do, but I do not like it, Sam-I-am. Can't go to the last post anymore.

[Spalanzani]

The Old Maid: "BTW, the site looks different, more click-intensive. Don't know if it's anything our host can do, but I do not like it, Sam-I-am. Can't go to the last post anymore."

Yeah, it's the new pagination system. To get around it, simply hit "preview" and you'll be able to see everything undivided, the way it used to be. To get to the last page quickly, go to the second page of comments and change the "2" near the end of the e-mail address to "100" or something absurdly high like that. Enter that in and it'll take you to the last page of comments.

[Spalanzani]

Police Officer: "Did you get a good look at the suspect?" Jenkins: "He seemed sincere. And passionate."

That was the most I've laughed in a long time. It's good to have Left Behind Fridays back...

[Ursula L]

If you paste this:

/comments/page/999/#comments

at the end of the URL for the first page of comments for any given thread, you will be taken to the last page, with the most recent posts. (Assuming that no post reaches more than 999 pages of comments.)

It is also useful to not what page you stopped on, when you're done reading for the day (or for a few hours). Put that number in place of the 999 in the bit above for the appropriate thread, and you should jump to the last page that you have read.

[Mnemosyne]

Wouldn't you maybe, I don't know, call someone and try to warn the world of what was about to happen?

That is, in a nuclear fear sort of way, the plot of Miracle Mile, a decent little low-budget movie from the 1980s. Of course, in that case, the main characters are among those who will be dead within an hour, so they may have a little more motivation.

You also have to ignore any possible sincerity from non-RTCs, because, after an event like the Rapture, a significant chunk of those who here the post-Rapture-converted-RTC's message are apt to reject it even if they believe it.

SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!

Speaking of pretty good little low-budget movies, that's how The Rapture ends: the main character is raptured in the End Times but refuses say that she loves God so she can continue on to Heaven because she's angry that he led her to murder her daughter, and she won't lie and say she loves Him even though her daughter begs her to. So she ends up alone, in Limbo, forever.
/end spoiler

[The Old Maid]

So the all-on-one-page index page ...

http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/left_behind

(All L.B.! All The Time!)

... is lost?

*sadness*

[Jesurgislac]

Oh god, the pagination isn't miraculously fixed by Fred's return. (Fred! Passionately and sincerely, help us!)

Given only 24 hours to do it, I don't think I would even try to warn people that the tsunami was going to hit, because (a) no one would believe me and (b) I couldn't possibly warn enough people. A national magazine editor? How would that help? Someone with access to BBC World news would have helped.

This I'll say: if I - or someone who trusted me enough to risk their career on my word - worked for BBC World news or some other global radio service, and could have broadcast a warning message about the tsunami 24 hours beforehand, yes, I would do it.

But without that? There wouldn't be a damn thing I could do. I don't think so, anyway, and as noted above, people with warning messages from the future generally find themselves unable to deliver them.

[MikhailBorg]

the main character is raptured in the End Times but refuses say that she loves God so she can continue on to Heaven because she's angry that he led her to murder her daughter, and she won't lie and say she loves Him even though her daughter begs her to.

Why would God need to ask? Can one lie to God?

"What does God need with a starship?" "Who is this God person anyway?"

[Jesurgislac]

To get to the last page quickly, go to the second page of comments and change the "2" near the end of the e-mail address to "100" or something absurdly high like that.

OH NOES. You said it. "Absurdly high". That means this thread will reach 101 pages at some point.

[Nenyasmine]

Fred! You're back!!!!!

Joy! Relief! Rapturous (!) happiness!

I will now go and actually read the post.

PS: CJMR is having a baby!
PPS: Typepad is ****.

[Nenya]

Fred! You're back!!!!!

Joy! Relief! Rapturous (!) happiness!

I will now go and actually read the post.

PS: CJMR is having a baby!
PPS: Typepad is ****.

[mcc]

He's interested in providing just enough information to get him signed up, but much of what Bruce knows about the events of the coming months and years is information that Bruce seems to consider classified, only to be shared on a "need to know" basis.

This is particularly fascinating because a major premise of the book is that this classified information is "literally" written in the Bible, the most popular book ever printed. So the information Bruce is willing to give Buck if he makes the cut is information which Bruce simultaneously asserts anyone could have had at any time if they'd just opened the bible and read what it says rather than... however it was people were reading the book for the previous 1600 years or whatever.

This might actually explain why Bruce is looking for a select tiny group for his message rather than shouting it from the rooftops. In the LBVerse, shouting from the rooftops has been tried and it does not work. The message was written in a book a significant percentage of the Earth's population has read and nobody even noticed it. Invincible, supernatural street prophets materialize in Jerusalem yelling the message at the top of their lungs and despite TV worldwide coverage the only element of this incident that people focus on as important is some guy getting a heart attack. Thus Bruce Barnes' need for an inner group: apparently the robots that populate LB are too stupid to see the blindingly obvious unless you personally and carefully indoctrinate them into it.

This gets alarming if you consider that this probably isn't an example of bad writing, but rather that this is how the authors think the real world works. They appear to have started with the facts "I look into this book and see something immediate and obvious in the contents" and "millions and millions of other people have read the same book, but they didn't see it". They have drawn a conclusion from these two premises and the conclusion is not "well maybe I'm making some kind of mistake then."

Hey, Fred, can you do anything about this horrible new pagination? This is just not readable. I like following the Slacktivist discussions but I just can't do so with this interface...

[Richard Hershberger]

Fred's point is really good, about Bruce keeping his knowledge classified: Unrevealed Truth, as it were. I am completely mystified by why anyone would join such a church. How can I believe something I haven't been told yet? I pretty much assume any such church is a scam. I am Lutheran. Ask me about Lutheran theology and I may bore your socks off, but there is nothing secret about it.

[Mnemosyne]

Why would God need to ask? Can one lie to God?

As I read the ending (and YMMV), it's because God is an enormous dick who demands that He be worshiped no matter what torture he puts you through.

Though you could also read it as God demanding from mortals the same thing we demand from Him: total love and acceptance no matter what we've done.

[Spalanzani]

Ursula L.: "you will be taken to the last page, with the most recent posts. (Assuming that no post reaches more than 999 pages of comments.)"

Careful. Jesurgislac said the same thing about 42 pages near the start of the More Boxes thread, and look what happenend.

(If 42 pages=about a 1,000 comments, then 999 pages would represent 23,786 or so comments. A scary thought.)

[DarcyPennell]

[The unsaved] know they're wrong, but they choose, deliberately, to reject what they know is true. I don't know that the authors would put it that starkly, but that seems to be the underlying assumption for their characterization of all non-RTCs.

I think actually they would put it that starkly. It's been a while but I'm sure I remember passages in the later LB books where the believers describe the unbelievers as "stubbornly choosing earthly pleasures" and "thumbing their noses at God." I can't provide exact quotes because I got the books from the library and don't have them anymore. Plus, that would require reading them again. Which, no.

[Spalanzani]

Jesurgislac: "OH NOES. You said it. "Absurdly high". That means this thread will reach 101 pages at some point."

Ah nuts. I, well...Ursula made it worse! Blame her!

...........

By they way, is there some reason a lot of people are having problems with double posts? Has Typepad started up some new fiendish innovation that I've yet to notice?

[chmood]

Wakboth: "That "everybody is a RTC in their heart, but they're ignoring God because they're EEEEVIL" thing is something I've never, ever been able to comprehend. How can anyone with any genuine experience with other people - especially people who aren't like you - believe that, even for a moment?"

Even having grown up among them, as one of them, this always struck me as some blind-spot of mine, until, I finally got it:

In their minds, these are not beliefs, these are facts, as concrete as phi, pi, and the speed at which falling objects accellerate; and there are only 3 kinds of people in the world, these being the Innocent, God's People, and the Unconverted. "Those Who Knowingly Embrace Evil" are not people to them, they are demons in the mask of humans, humans who have willingly invited their possession - they are The Enemy, every bit as much as "Satan himself". It is the burden of God's People that they must continually hammer away at The Unconverted until they convert & join God's People. This effort only stops in the event that an Unconverted convinces one of God's People that they will NOT convert, and are NOT interested in revisiting the conversation in the future, so keep it to yourself, thanks.

In their world, they have just shown themselves to be - admitted themselves to be in "Satan's" service, and God's People (or, at least, *that* one) will avoid that person and pray for their destruction.

[Eric B.]

Why would 9-11 be different from the tsunami?