Inexcusable, really

Left Behind Friday seems to have turned into house-hunting and dinner-with-family Friday. I apologize.

I don't suppose the promise of another Left Behind Saturday Monday (@%#$!) is much help if you're sitting in a cubicle and trying to run out the clock on a Friday afternoon, but perhaps it'll provide a welcome distraction come Monday morning.

As a kind of amuse bouche for tomorrow's belated installment, here's a link to John McCain's buddy, John Hagee, getting worked up preaching on his favorite topic: The Rapture of the Church.

Two things worth noting in that video: 1) Hagee is barking mad, and 2) His sermon gives more thought to what such an event might look like and how people might respond than LaHaye and Jenkins do in Left Behind.

Comments

[Michele my bell-flower]

I have friends in London (England) who would say he's "Dagenham" -- that is a stop on the subway that is "one past Barking".

[Karen]

Well, it's keeping my unbroken string of no LB's on Fridays when I'm off and can comment. Also, I just got home from the funeral of the 13-year-old daughter of a classmate of mine from law school. It was a beautiful service, if anything about the death of a 13-year-old should be described as beautiful. That said, I'm really not up to reading L & J's opinions about 7th and 8th graders deserving eternal punishment right now.

I'll be ready for some major snark tomorrow, though.

[Boze]

John Hagee - oh, what a voice he has.

[Boze]

I got really angry with Hagee during the weeks just before the war in Iraq, when he became President Bush's chief propagandist in defense of the war. Those were fun times.

[Robbie Taylor]

LB Saturday - or ANY day - would be great! I miss it every time real life intervenes for you, but I completely understand.

[Karen]

Where I can find a close-up of that giant Chick-tract in color he had on the back of the stage? I want a closer look at the women riding the seven-headed lion.

[Robb]

Thankfully/frustratingly/comic-fortune-ishly, youtube is blocked at work, so I can't see what wonderful excrement Hagee is spewing.

But count me among the slightly bummed that LB Friday won't get me through my last few hours of cubicle farming for the week. Your apology is accepted. And since my weekend activities in meatspace usually keep me from keeping up with the comments, I'll pre-emptively say:

"Way to stick it to 'em, Fred", "Hmm, actually, I think I agree with damnedyankee/aunursa/MikhailBorg/[whoever] on this one", and finally "Whoo hoo, RBC! (and no, I don't mean rice, bean, & cheese burrito or Royal Bank of Canada)"

[noyatin]

Thanks, Fred. I look forward to the next L.B. installment whenever you have the time to post it.

For some reason, Hagee's voice helps me drift off to sleep better than any sleeping pill I've tried. I've ended up listening to most of his books, and many of his sermons, several times apiece. I always have one or two of his audio books or sermon CDs with me when I travel.

As a result, I'm very familiar with Hagee's thinking (using the term loosely), and while I agree he is barking mad, I do not think he's an anti-semite. He simply can't reconcile biblical literalism (and predestination)with free will.

In Hagee's world, everything that has happened in human history has had to happen. In another context, he explained the passage in Matthew's gospel when the Jews select Barrabbas over Jesus by stating that the Jews had no choice - I believe his exact words we're "God didn't provide a Plan B." Hagee has no doubt that Hitler was evil, and will suffer for eternity for his crimes, but at the end of the day Hitler accomplished what God had decreed would be accomplished.

Hagee is, however, viciously anti-Catholic, although he won't come out and admit it. He simply says "Isn't it obvious who the false prophet is?" and leaves it at that. His views are identical to those of Jack Chick, of the little cartoon tracts fame.

In any case, as the YouTube clip shows, Hagee is always entertaining (and batsh*t loony).

[Lauren]

As a kind of amuse bouche for tomorrow's belated installment...

Darn-it! What about those of us sitting in a cubical trying to run out the clock who can't access Youtube from our work computers?

J/k, of course; if I were working for what we all pay you, I'd take a day off now and again, too.

[patb]

I got called an ass the last time I tried to post this... Let's see if I've toned it down any.

I get why an atheist like me hangs around here. But really, what is the deal with our host? He believes that there is an invisible fairy that runs the universe and he believes that there's a book that tells us that. But he doesn't believe in one part of the book that says he's going to be cranky when he comes back at the end of the world?

I definitely agree with his assessment of the bad writing and bad theology, but what's the believable stuff in the Bible? Pairs of animals in a boat? Bears mauling kids for taunting a bald guy? Or my personal favorite Ezekiel's UFO sightings?

Fred, how can you be so smart about so much and still believe in imaginary all powerful deities? (Sorry, 1 deity... my bad. Multiple deities, we can all see how THAT is unbelievable. Completely different thing. Right...)

[lonespark]

I'm in your boat, Laura. I guess we'll have to use our imaginations. Or have a flame-war.

[Spherical Time]

Or you can always contribute to the "Rapture Wave" stories on Right Behind.

Subtle? No, not at all.

[Mau de Katt]

"Now people always ask this question: 'Pastor Hagee, what difference does it make whether I believe in the Rapture or not?' .... The Bible says, if you're not looking for Him, He's not coming for you.... If you're not looking for Him, you're not going with him."

OH-kay. So not only do you have to say The Magic Words, you have to -- have to -- believe in and look for and expect the Rapture too...?

Uh-huh.

No wonder there's no energy or inclination left to... oh, I dunno... feed the sick, clothe the naked, visit the imprisioned, comfort the afflicted, etc....

[PurpleGirl]

I understand Fred's predicament but I was looking forward to printing out today's installment to read on the way home. I'll be taking a different bus route to avoid any problems with my regular bus caused by the crane collapse on East 91st Street this morning. One of my buses has been detoured the whole day and I know it must be completely messed up. Oh, well, I'll find something else to fill the travel time tonight.

[Mau de Katt]

close tag.

[SueW]

If I had a desk job, there is no way I would read LBF while at work. Much too distracting.

Then again, to be sitting around reading blogs on such a nice day is probably just wrong.

Excuse me while I go back to gardening!

[McJulie]

@patb: In case you are wondering why people would call you an ass, let me try to explain.

He believes that there is an invisible fairy that runs the universe

Please don't be disingenuous and claim this particular way of describing religious faith isn't flame-bait. When you are obviously deliberately insulting people they tend to 1. Get insulted, 2. Conclude that you are an ass, or 3. A little of both.

One might just as well describe the human race as "a bunch of naked monkeys who labor under the pathetic delusion that they are capable of rational thought."

[mcc]

One might just as well describe the human race as "a bunch of naked monkeys who labor under the pathetic delusion that they are capable of rational thought."

My primary objection to this representation would be that it is demonstratable that most humans are, indeed, at most times clothed.

[MikhailBorg]

most humans are, indeed, at most times clothed

And even when I'm not clothed, I'm a bit furry.

Though not Furry.

Though I sometimes hang out with a few. They throw excellent parties.

[Naked Bunny with a Whip]

What?!

Well, Fred, I guess I know who won't be getting raptured Monday night.

[Naked Bunny with a Whip]

....Crap. You didn't hear that from me.

[jamoche]

If I had a desk job, there is no way I would read LBF while at work. Much too distracting.

I have an excuse. I'm compiling.

[Cowboy Diva]

jamoche,
back in the day my graphic design group worked on PowerPCs (before the Gx series), we called it rasterizing.
man oh man it used to take ages for postscript to spool.

[Laertes]

I'm sure this has been covered before, but the Hagee bit got me to wondering:

This concept of the Rapture is a pretty new and, I gather, largely American phenomenon. Who first cooked it up, and when?

[rizzo]

Good luck house hunting, Fred!

[Ian]

Fred, you really don't need to apologize for being a day behind in freely giving us something fine and good.

I like the giant, insane poster behind Hagee. The right half of it is totally metal. He should use Black Sabbath as background music when he talks about the Antichrist.

I have some sympathy for rapture diagramming -- my Brethren Grandpa had a chart that was restrained and ornate. I see those bizarre attempts to rationally systematize disconnected bits of poetry as the misguided product of admirable intellectual rigor. In principle if not in practice, the old-school fundamentalists thought that every congregant should be trying to make rational sense of the Bible on his own. The evangelical megachurch model seems, depressingly, to be much more top-down -- Hagee speak, you listen.

[Hawker Hurricane]

"Pre-Millinial Dispensation" in America is pretty much the invention of Reverend John Darby in the 1830's. It didn't get to be real popular until the publishing of the Schofield Reference Bible in the early 1900's, though.

[GailVortex]

Oh, Karen, so sorry to hear of you and your friends' loss.

But thinking about just such a loss really makes one wonder what kind of heartless bastards/inhuman robots/brainwashed gits LH&J are that they can't stick themselves into grieving parents' emotions for a single nanosecond, though, doesn't it?

[randlebrot]

Rolling Stone: Jesus Made Me Puke
I had been attending the Cornerstone Church for weeks, but this was really my first day of school. I had joined Cornerstone — a megachurch in the Texas Hill Country — to get a look inside the evangelical mind-set that gave the country eight years of George W. Bush. The church's pastor, John Hagee, is one of the most influential evangelical preachers in the country — not because his ministry is so very large (although he claims up to 4.5 million viewers a week for his Sunday sermons) but because of his near-absolute conquest of a very trendy niche in the market: Christian Zionism.

The whole idea behind Christian Zionism is to align America with the nation of Israel so as to "hurry God up" in his efforts to bring about Armageddon. As Hagee tells it, only after Israel is involved in a final showdown involving a satanic army (in most interpretations, a force of Arabs led by Russians) will Christ reappear. On that happy day, Hagee and his True Believers will be whisked up to Heaven by God, while the rest of us nonbelievers are left behind on Earth to suck eggs and generally suffer various tortures.

So here I was, standing in the church parking lot, having responded to church advertisements hawking an "Encounter Weekend" — three solid days of sleep-away Christian fellowship that would teach me the "joy" of "knowing the truth" and "being set free." That had sounded harmless enough, but now that I was here and surrounded by all of these blanket-bearing people, I was nervous. When most Americans think of the Christian right, they think of scenes from television — great halls full of perfectly groomed people in pale suits and light-colored dresses, smiling and happy and full of the Holy Spirit, robotically singing hymns at the behest of some squeaky-clean pastor with a baritone voice and impossible hair. We don't get to see the utterly batshit world they live in, when the cameras are turned off and their pastors are not afraid of saying the really dumb stuff, for fear of it turning up on CNN. In American evangelical Christianity, in other words, there's a ready-for-prime-time stage act — toned down and lip-synced to match a set of PG lyrics that won't scare the advertisers — and then there's the real party backstage, where the spiritual hair really gets let down. I was about to go backstage, to personally take part in the indoctrination process for a major Southern evangelical church.

[Brandi]

Good luck with the house hunt, Fred.

BTW, why are there 9 ShareThis icons at the bottom of each post now?

[practicallyevil]

As a kind of amuse bouche for tomorrow's belated installment, here's a link to John McCain's buddy, John Hagee, getting worked up preaching on his favorite topic: The Rapture of the Church.

To paraphrase for those who don't have the stomach for this stuff:

"Next time Jesus sees you, he's going to punch you in the face, because I told him you were calling him names."

Also chuckling at his mixing metaphors of God as the great physician and Death as the great physician, apparently they're interchangeable to him.

Or you can always contribute to the "Rapture Wave" stories on Right Behind.

Subtle? No, not at all.

It'll be on your e-desk in an hour sir.

[Pepper]

"Next time Jesus sees you, he's going to punch you in the face, because I told him you were calling him names."

Thanks. I was waffling on whether to click and expose myself to the batshittery. Now I don't have to.

...hmm. Waffles.

[Kayla]

And you get yet another comment from a hard-core lurker like myself, and that's to say that I shall await the Snarky Saturday with relished glee of one who made it through all 12 books of this series...

Oh and good job at the reviews they are hilarious...that's all *goes back to lurking*

[Jeff]

But really, what is the deal with our host?

And that, right there, gets you an "ASS" tattoo.

Band Name of the Day: Ass Tattoo

[Lila]

Damn it, Robb, now I want a rice, bean and cheese burrito.

....or maybe waffles. (thanks a LOT, Pepper!)

Guess I should go fix dinner.

Oh, almost forgot: patb has given us a classic example of what the folks on Boing Boing call "CATFOTFIC" (Complaining About The Flavor Of The Free Ice Cream).

patb, if you think Fred's an idiot, you're free to read some other blog.

If you prefer to hang around and read this one, perhaps you should reexamine your assumption that its host is an idiot.

Oh, and learn not to be surprised when the friends of people you insult find your behavior less than charming.

[Salamanda]

Jeff, I would SO listen to Ass Tattoo.

[Mnemosyne]

Actually, I'd like an explanation for this:

I get why an atheist like me hangs around here.

Frankly, I don't get why you hang around here if you think the person whose writing you're reading is an idiot. I'm guessing that you came here on the assumption that if someone was willing to mock one specific branch of Christian theology, or doesn't believe that the Bible is inerrant or that the world was created 6,000 years ago, then they must be an atheist.

Please read this greatest hit of Fred's, think about it, and see if the question still comes up in your mind the same way. (Hint: your thinking is not much different than that of Fred's college friend. A mirror image is still showing the same thing.)

[JayH]

patb: I got called an ass the last time I tried to post this... Let's see if I've toned it down any. I get why an atheist like me hangs around here.

I kinda do, but not entirely.

But really, what is the deal with our host? He believes that there is an invisible fairy that runs the universe and he believes that there's a book that tells us that. But he doesn't believe in one part of the book that says he's going to be cranky when he comes back at the end of the world? [...] what's the believable stuff in the Bible? Pairs of animals in a boat? Bears mauling kids for taunting a bald guy? Or my personal favorite Ezekiel's UFO sightings? Fred, how can you be so smart about so much and still believe in imaginary all powerful deities? [...]

I looked up "productive" in Merriam-Webster's online dictionary and none of the definitions came close to describing your contribution to the thread.

Well, maybe #5 came close.

Sorry, I suppose I shouldn't be so impolite, but really - do you wander into churches and interrupt the services with this sort of comment? If not, why would you do it here?

[Matt]

I love the YouTube comments. They are arguing over a pre-trib rapture vs a post-trib rapture. It always amazes me that the differing factions can agree on so much, but want nothing to do with one another because they think the events happen in a different order. I keep waiting for someone to acuse him of being part of the Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915.

[Cary Bleasdale]

I was reading the article, and the one thing that continually strikes me about the really really fundy fundies is their complete lack of a sense of irony. For instance, the other day I was in a thrift store, and picked up a books called CRISIS-AMERICA. (Forward by Pat Boone!) This book was written in the early '70's, and there is one section describing the horrors sweeping over America. Rape! Murder! Robbery! LEWD MOVIES! (I was reminded of that old Sesame Street song: "one of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong...")

I literally cannot comprehend being able to do that with a straight face. Even in my deeply fundy phase, I still had a concept of irony and porportion, ya know?

[VP]

I don't have speakers on my computer, but those posters do, indeed, own.

In the first place, what's he saying?

Secondly, do any of you know whether or not McCain actually believes this, or whether he had picked the wrong church to say he attended?

[R. Mildred]

I love the YouTube comments.

My favorite youtube comment was one on a video that showed you the scale of a variety of celstial objects (starting with the moon, it moved sideways onto the earth and zoomed out so it fit into frame, then it zoomed out to jupiter, then the sun, then another star, then another, and then another, each literally dwarfing hte other one as the whole "bom bom, bom bom, bom bom, derrrrr, derrrr, DERRRRRRRR... DER DU!" music from 2001 played.

It mentioned the word "alien", meaning extraterrestrial, in the tags though, so obviously one of the anti-immigrant spambots posted a comment with details on how to contact your local ICE offices and get people you thought were "illegals" in your neighbourhood taken away by the fingermen...

I avoid reading youtube comments for a reason, they're like the absolute and utter nadir of human society, to the point where it's almost as bad as listening to a congressional hearing sometimes.

[Dahne]

Riding on that multiheaded monster looks pretty fun.

[Omorka]

I will not feed the troll, I will not feed the troll . . . oh, Hel.

Multiple deities, we can all see how THAT is unbelievable.

Actually, to a polytheist like myself, the distinction between a monotheist and an atheist is all of one god. To us, it's the two of you who look alike.

[Dahne]

the whole "bom bom, bom bom, bom bom, derrrrr, derrrr, DERRRRRRRR... DER DU!" music from 2001 played.

As long as it doesn't go DRR DRR DRR. *shiver*

[Naked Bunny with a Whip]

Not that anyone asked, but this atheist hangs around for the pointed social commentary and the scathing yet funny literary critiques.

[Abelardus]

Hagee makes a false analogy there about theologians who say there won't be a Rapture: he likens the denial of the Rapture to someone running down main street saying "The dam is breaking!" But the Rapture is supposedly upon us, just a recently burst damn would be.... But I guess what I'm saying is that Hagee is the man running down main street saying "The dam is breaking!" with his Rapture/denial-of-death malarkey. And I wish he would have a heart attack.

Also, I remember he spoke once about the raptured Christians "looking down from the balconies of heaven upon the suffering unsaved." I had the image of the LaHayes, the Lindseys, the Hagees, the Parsleys of the world sitting smugly at the right hand of their god -- the spoiled pet, the lapdog, of their god. Could there be a more unflattering presentation of Christianity by its so-called "proponents"?

OK, rant over.

[Grimgrin]

patb: I'm also atheist who hangs out here. I'm not here for the critique of some of the more virulent strains of political Christianity. I'm here because it challenges me to think from a different viewpoint, and because Fred shares some of the basic values such, doubt, empathy and reason that I like to think my philosophy is informed by. It's interesting to see how his ideas, which are very much informed by a belief in God, and mine which are informed by a disbelief can run parallel.

I'm also going to call you an ass. It's one thing to toss around 'invisible sky fairy' when one side of the debate is rejecting your right to believe the way you want to. Hell I'll even go so far as to say it's alright for a polemic or generally addressed article or speech. It's quite another to insult someone's beliefs apropos of nothing in a discussion, even a semi-anonymous one as exists in the comments here.