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May 01, 2009

Comments

cjmr's husband

The best part of Moby Dick? The sharks with frickin' lasers.

/goes back to read article

Kyle

In almost three years of reading this blog...I've never even been close to being first.

uhhh...Pensive Boobie?

Dan

Psalm 139 is good, but I think Amos 9 works better:

"Though they dig into Sheol, from there shall my hand take them;
though they climb up to heaven, from there I will bring them down.
Though they hide themselves on the top of Carmel, from there I will search out and take them;
and though they hid from my sight at the bottom of the sea, there I will command the sea-serpent, and it shall bite them.
And though they go into captivity in front of their enemies, there I will command the sword and it shall kill them;
and I will fix my eyes on them for harm and not for good."

Kyle

DAMMIT

*shakes tiny angry fist at cjmr's husband.

Oh well...I suppose I can wait another couple years.

burgundy

I can't decide if the bit about Psalm 139 reminds me more of "Sinnerman" or The Runaway Bunny. (My mother, incidentally, thinks that The Runaway Bunny is deeply disturbing and a terrible message. I imagine she would not find the psalm comforting either.)

Dorothy

Dancing boobies!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYmzdvMoUUA

CombatQueer

This is the best thing I've read al week.

Seriously, how awesome would it be in all the mega-churches were really just a cover for S.H.E.I.L.D. I guess the logistics would put fairly easy to figure out. I mean, if you know that there will be 100,000 Christians lefts at the end of the world, and at most they'll be around for seven years, then how difficult can it possibly be to figure out how much food, water, medical supplies, and and shitty ersatz pop music they'll need?

zzyzx

No way that theory works because Rapture Ready's boards would accidentally leak it all the time. They can't even remember that they're not supposed to be publicly rooting for the destruction of Damascus after all. The moderators have to regularly give warnings about how being excited when it looks like Israel might be attacked and bummed when peace treaties are signed looks to the outside world.

Keith

"I think we need a shelter. ... Underground. ... During the period of peace we can build it without suspicion. ... I'm talking about getting an earthmover in here and digging out a place we can escape to. ..."

"Say reverend, what do you need that earthmover for?"

"Oh, uh... just moving some earth! Can't a man of the cloth move a little earth now and again without getting the third degree? Shit! He's on to us!" walks away quickly, sweating.

"Huh. Just gonna ask him if he wanted the backhoe, too."

Mark Baker-Wright

Why waste time encoding Left Behind novels when you've got gematria and isopsephy in the Bible itself! ;)

William

So how is this different from Charlie Manson looking for a giant hole/cave in the desert to escape the coming race war
from which to emerge as the leader of the new world.
Besides the naked hippies that is.

hapax

No music post today? And I was so looking forward to linking to First of May, too.

I dunno. I like this interpretation of the LB books. I think it's sort of sweet, actually, to contemplate all those earnest PMD's building and stocking shelters for sinful Episcopalians like me.

But if they don't include a liquor cabinet, lots of luck in luring us down there...

Rocambole

'The Runaway Bunny' is deeply disturbing.

hapax

But FOUR FUR FEET is pure awesome. GOODNIGHT, MOON, too.

Murfyn

"Detailed instructions on the locations of and access to these shelters have been left behind, embedded in an elaborate code in the pages of the Left Behind novels."
O Sinner Man
No, not the Nina Simone version, a celtic one.

hapax

And THE RUNAWAY BUNNY isn't nearly as creepy as Munch's I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER. I mean, you've got a grown man's aged mother *stalking* him, creeping into his bedroom at night to cuddle him...

eeeewwww.

When my son's second-grade class put on a Mother's Day pageant based on that book, it was all I could do not to stand up and scream "Run, you fool, before the Pod-Woman eats you!"

LMM

I have nothing to contribute here, except to point out how awesome this idea is.

Lori

Bruce said he would order a huge water tank and have it delivered...and people would assume it was just some sort of storage tank.

It is some sort of storage tank. What else would they think it is? And what difference is this oh so clever manuvering going to make in the long run any way? When the crap hits the fan people are going to remember the earth moving and the storage tank and figure out where the all important hole is hidden. The threat of death is inspiring that way.

L&J don't bother or aren't able to make even the small things make sense. I should be used to that by now and yet somehow I'm not.

burgundy

Is it really that bad? I mean, consider the target age. When you're that young, isn't it good to know that even if you're Bad, your parents will still be your parents? Sure, as you get older, your parents need to take on more responsibility and be independent and if you're 20, or even 12, the message "Mommy will follow you no matter how hard you try to get away" is awful. But when you're 2?

A friend of mine used to do a lot of child care work - and she told me once about her kids' reactions to Prince of Egypt. I assumed they'd be most freaked out by the Death of the Firstborn scene; certainly I found it disturbing. But she said that these really young kids were actually deeply upset by Moses' mother putting him in the basket in the river. His mother threw him away. There's a need for security at that age that I think The Runaway Bunny speaks to.

We could probably get into a really awful flamewar about whether or not this says anything about the maturity level of people who require that kind of security in their theology. But it's Friday, and an LB post, so let's not.

Michael

Now that we've got Pride & Prejudice & Zombies, there may come a day when Moby-Dick really is about killer robot ninjas from outer space.

Ian

"I think we need a shelter. ... Underground. ... During the period of peace we can build it without suspicion."

I would have thought a time of peace was the most suspicious time to build an underground bunker.

Karen

Boobies

I work for the agency in Texas that regulates electricians and air conditioning contractors. Believe me, four untrained people will NEVER be able to wire and plumb anything like this in a safe manner, much less a secret one. For one thing, I'm sure Chicago actually meters electricity, and if a building with a stable pattern of electricity use suddenly spikes its power consumption, people will notice. (If the cops can use power spikes to find marijuana growers, don't these conspiracy freaks think that the bleeding ANTICHRIST will have his minions check on such things? Jeez, we don't just rely on black helicopters you know.) Actually, keeping with my parenthetical, the black helicopter guys would probably see the big piles of wire and wall studs required for this system.

Salamanda

It's more like encountering a supposed Melville scholar who tells you that Moby Dick is mainly about killer robot ninjas from outer space.

Wait. You mean it wasn't?


And "Hey, look over there at the big water tank!" seems an unpromising approach to deceiving someone both omnipresent and omniscient.

I dunno. It took God quite a while---and special trip down to earth besides---before he noticed the whole Tower of Babel thing going on, and that was with them building it with the intent of reaching heaven.


Let 'em dig their own damn hole.

Hey, God helps those who help themselves, right? Or...well, He used to... hm.

everstar

I'm curious about why Mr. Barnes isn't actually using the tank. Does he really think that municipal pumps and wells will keep working throughout the Times of Trouble? Wouldn't it make more sense to have a backup water supply in case the power gets shut off? Have I possibly already thought about this more than either of the authors? I think so.

I assumed they'd be most freaked out by the Death of the Firstborn scene
As an eldest child, I can assure you that the question of whether "Death of the Firstborn" referred to the oldest child or the oldest son was deeply pressing to me at the age of six.

Neohippie

My goodess, for books about the end of the world, they sure are BORING!

By definition, our heroes can't actually do anything that will make a big difference in the world. They can't kill the antichrist, and no matter what they do, Scary Disembowling Jesus will come back at the appointed time, no sooner, no later.

And they aren't intersted in trying to save any other individual people from their individual little fates.

So... this series is really ten more books about people hiding in a hole?

HOW IN THE HELL WERE THEY SO POPULAR?? I mean, really, I worked at Barnes and Noble when they were coming out! We had trouble keeping them in stock!

I mean, jeez, we can't even have Nicholae doing creepy things? And I mean more creepy than shooting someone. Creepy Antichrist things. Or maybe scary monsters eating people? At least the first book had stuff getting blown up at the beginning. Oh wait, that was just in the movie, right?

But no. "I called you all here for something very important! We're going to... DIG A BIG HOLE!" OOH!

Wake me up when something exciting happens.

Nick Kiddle

// (If the cops can use power spikes to find marijuana growers, don't these conspiracy freaks think that the bleeding ANTICHRIST will have his minions check on such things? Jeez, we don't just rely on black helicopters you know.)//

Funnily enough, my family were discussing this at our annual get-together last weekend. My uncle told us a fun story about someone who tried to get round that by stealing power from the nearby streetlamp.

stinger

Revelation 6:13: "and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind."

Hey, any literalists here? 'Cause I would really like to see THAT happen!

slacktivist: "Screw 'em, I guess. No room for them here. Let 'em dig their own damn hole."

Ah, the Republican credo.

victoria

Is anyone else reminded of the South Park episode "Cartoon Wars" when folks literally buried their heads in sand as a way to avoid controversy?

Tehanu

David meant these words to be reassuring. His idea of the character of God made the idea of God's inescapable presence a comforting thought. LaHaye & Jenkins paint a portrait of God that suggests a far less comforting understanding of that constant presence.

More like Big Brother, innit? This just reinforces my sense that L&J and their fans don't worship God because they believe he's good -- they worship because he's powerful. If God told them to torture a baby they would do it so fast your head would spin.

Deird

So... this series is really ten more books about people hiding in a hole?

Well, there's quite a few more phonecalls.

(No, seriously. I remember several chapters just about them getting new phones and listing exciting things about them.)

Ian

Now that we've got Pride & Prejudice & Zombies, there may come a day when Moby-Dick really is about killer robot ninjas from outer space.

Hey wait a second, Moby Dick already has ninjas!

"But at this critical instant a sudden exclamation was heard that took every eye from the whale. With a start all glared at dark Ahab, who was surrounded by five dusky phantoms that seemed fresh formed out of air. The phantoms, for so they then seemed, were flitting on the other side of the deck, and, with a noiseless celerity, were casting loose the tackles and bands of the boat which swung there. This boat had always been deemed one of the spare boats, though technically called the captain's, on account of its hanging from the starboard quarter. The figure that now stood by its bows was tall and swart, with one white tooth evilly protruding from its steel-like lips. A rumpled Chinese jacket of black cotton funereally invested him, with wide black trowsers of the same dark stuff." (Moby Dick, end of ch. 47 and start of ch. 48, word for word, unabridged)

If that's in the text already, think how easy it would be to give Moby Dick the PPZ treatment. Right-Behinders, the gauntlet has been thrown down!

Salamanda

Revelation 6:13: "and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind."

Hey, any literalists here? 'Cause I would really like to see THAT happen!

Ew, I wouldn't. Our neighbors had a fig tree, and every year it'd get all splatty and gross and attract rats.

Though OK, I'll admit, star-splats might be pretty.

SueW

You know I'm trying to run this church...

I thought they had all been raptured except for Loretta. What's there to run?

Lauren

That was the funniest thing I read all day, beating out the unintentional hilarity of finding "decreased conciousness" in a list of symptoms on Wikipedia. How can one have "decreased conciousness"? You are either concious, or you are unconcious.

Schrodingers Duck

The idea doesn't even sound that farfetched. After all, there's programs you can get that, if you don't log on to your computer for X number of days, sends an emergency "In case of Rapture" email to your friends and family. Perhaps LH&J have something similar set-up, and if Jenkins doesn't log on his computer for a week, an email detailing this secret code will be automatically sent to megachurches across America.

That said, I don't think Bruce has fully thought out his water tank plan. Personally, I'd be worried enough about an apocalypticistic cult-leader buying an unnecessarily big water tank anyway, especially since he lives in a Chicago suburb rather than in the countryside where it might be useful. Secondly, there's a massive flood predicted, in which case the worst place to be would be underground. Third, in the event of an emergency, how would he escape? He already has a perfectly innocuous building - a church - and all he needs to do is get builders in and have them reinforce the walls surreptitiously - much less suspicious than buying a bloody huge water tank and then "sending it back", never speaking of it again.

cjmr

(so obviously the evenstar commenting above is not my six-month old, nor husband or myself speaking for her)*

-----

I'd have thought Fred's proposal was merely amusingly silly, except for a thread I was reading today on one of my homeschooling boards.

First some backstory--since last summer, some of the Mormon homeschoolers have been giving kind of an online course in how to obtain and maintain the years' supply of food that they are required to have stocked up, and several of the PMD families have been stocking up a years' supply for their families based on this advice. (Personally, I'm doing well if we have a two-week supply!)

Today, one of the PMD moms shared with us that she'd felt convicted lately that their family would not actually be using the supplies they've so carefully laid by, and that she should write a letter to those 'Left Behind' sharing with them the Gospel and how she'd like them to use the supplies that they will have discovered in her nicely stocked house. She posted her letter, which even mentioned that they should collect others who have come to be convicted by the Rapture of the truth of the Gospel and use her house as a safe house.**

Everyone who had commented on the thread last I looked thought that was a great idea and at least one of them was going to do something similar, but suggested that copies of the LB books and movies be left as well. So who knows, in a few months there may actually be such a pre-built safe house network, created by homeschool moms...
-----
*that probably goes without saying...

**up to today, I considered that particular mom one of the most sane/least hysteric of the PMDs on this board, too.

chaos_engineer

Detailed instructions on the locations of and access to these shelters have been left behind, embedded in an elaborate code in the pages of the Left Behind novels

No, because when the Antichrist comes to power, the books would immediately fall under suspicion...unless the Antichrist knows that they were really written by his followers for their own secret communications.

This is actually almost the plot of Kurt Vonnegut's "Mother Night"...the hero appears to be broadcasting Nazi propaganda during WW2, but he's actually sending coded messages to the Allies through pre-arranged patterns of coughs and throat-clearings during his program.

His fatal flaw is that he's an actor, and he doesn't want to turn in a sloppy performance. He plays his role as effectively as he can, and does such a good job of broadcasting propaganda that he inspires the German people and quite possibly prolongs the war.

I'd guess that the demons who wrote "Left Behind" have read "Mother Night", and so they didn't fall into that particular trap.

Deird

No, because when the Antichrist comes to power, the books would immediately fall under suspicion...unless the Antichrist knows that they were really written by his followers for their own secret communications.

So... L&J are the Antichrist? Is that what we've determined?

calenturian

It's more like encountering a supposed Melville scholar who tells you that Moby Dick is mainly about killer robot ninjas from outer space.

It may not have robot ninjas (although I might read it if it did), but Moby Dick did foretell the assassinations of various world leaders. Allegedly.

Does Bruce's Great Big Hole irresistibly remind anyone else of the Artilleryman from War of the Worlds?

Headless Unicorn Guy

But Bruce knows, specifically, what the future holds. He knows about the trials and the wrath to come and he knows about the job he and the others will have to do. And with all of that in mind, he has devised the following two-part strategy:
1. Dig a really big hole.
2. Hide in it until Jesus comes back.

What? No 3. Kiss Your Ass Goodbye?

The other big problem with Bruce's Big Plan isn't theological, merely logistical: The shelter only has room for four.

Question, Slack, Everybody:

How does this differ from the Survivalist movements of the Eighties? Their Survival Refuges and Bomb/Fallout Shelters? Except the Trib Force's Secret Headquarters has got to shelter and SURVIVE (TM) far more than just a mere global thermonuclear war or total collapse of civilization.

Wait... Trib Force's Secret Headquarters... Doesn't this sound like either some kids' Sekrit Klub or a half-baked attempt at something out of a Bond movie? Or Art Bell's open phone lines?

This would seem to make PMD types like Tim LaHaye less threatening to others than their theological opposites -- the dominionists and other post-millennial, theocratic types who seek to conquer the world, setting up a sectarian kingdom for Jesus to come back to reign over. Theocrats want to rule the world. PMDs just want to hide until it's over. So where the former set out to dictate how others must also live, the latter -- in theory -- simply expect the world to keep getting worse and worse until it falls apart and don't claim there's anything they can or should do about it.

Actually, the Moral Majority et al arose from cross-fertilization (or cross-contamination) between PMDs and Dominionists. Can't remember which blog I read it on years ago, but here's the gist of it:

1) Post-Mil Dominionists (AKA Theonomists) were originally NOT takeover-and-Taliban types (or those that were were considered Fringe even by other Theonomists). Since Christ would not return until after the world was Christianized in the Millenium, they had no time constraints. The general strategy was to convert more and more of the world's population until the almost-totally-Christian population voluntarily placed themselves under the theocracy of Christ and the church, after which The End would come and the Kingdom would be voluntarily handed over. The prepwork could take several centuries, but then they had all the time they needed.

2) However, when Pre-Mil PMDs got hold of this idea, they skipped completely to the last page. Since Christ was Coming Soon (TM), they HAD to Christianize the world IMMEDIATELY, establishing the Christian Theocracy as quickly as possible. They jumped to the Theonomists end-stage without doing the centuries of prepwork, and at that point the only way to "Take Back America" was to effectively steamroller in and take over in a coup.

3) However, the PMD Pre-Mil "Take Back America" types have never thought it through. Their plan contains one HUGE paradox right at its core: Since Christ is Coming Tomorrow at the Latest and It's All Gonna Burn, what difference does it make if the PMDs take over and establish a Theocracy? It's Still All Gonna Burn. (However, this does not discourage the likes of Rayford Steele; remember his line at the end of Volume 12 after being handed a Completely Renewed and Perfected Cosmos?)

Sue

Wow - "if Dan Brown wrote a Slacktivist post". :-D

David

It all makes sense now!

Reminds me of the meta-premise of Jack Williamson's "Darker Than You Think"...

everstar

(so obviously the evenstar commenting above is not my six-month old, nor husband or myself speaking for her)

Me? I am an ever, not an even. :) Although now I'm wondering if I ought to have forgone my usual nom de net.

sofia

My first comment here. Yay! Just found the blog a few weeks and loving it.

To chaos_engineer about Vonnegut's "Mother Night," there's a quote from the book that reminds me of much of the PMD mindset.

"And if you disagree me, you sir, are worse than Hitler."

Lori

My uncle told us a fun story about someone who tried to get round that by stealing power from the nearby streetlamp.

Does your uncle live in southern California? In the LA area gangs rent McMansions and turn them into giant grow rooms, floor to ceiling with pot plants. In order to keep from being discovered via their prodigious use of utilities they steal from everywhere---the neighbors, the street lamps, the traffic signals if there's one close enough. The stole water from neighborhood associations, parks, golf courses. I found myself reluctantly impressed with their ingenuity, though not their law breaking.

Not Really Here

But if they don't include a liquor cabinet, lots of luck in luring us down there...

Don't really care much for liquor myself, but I could be lured in if they had a nice grow room- not a big ol' honkin' one that would cause power spikes that would attract police attention, just a small closet-sized one to maintain a supply for the small number of residents of the hole in the ground.

A big ol' honkin' hole in the ground. And they're going to do this in freaking suburban Chicago? 'Cause that wouldn't arouse suspicions of the people in the surrounding neighborhood, so that when the Antichrist's minions came knocking on doors asking folks if they knew if there were any Trib Saints hiding out in the area, nobody would say, "Well, you know, I do remember a bit over a year ago, the church up the street dug up their parking lot, and buried this huge water tank, and there seemed to be a lot of construction work going on before they finally paved the top back over again..."

sofia

"If you disagree with me, you sir, are worse than Hitler."*

Reverend Ref

"I feel such a tremendous responsibility for you all . . .

Like the rest of us priests and pastors don't feel any sort of responsibility? I can't speak for others, but when I was struggling with my discernment regarding a call to the priesthood, that was one of my biggest issues: "Who am I to take responsibility for the spiritual lives of a congregation?"

Oh well . . . I'm just an Episcopalian, what do I know?

Inquisitive Raven

Ooh, time for a former EMT to show off, thanks Lauren.

Levels of consciousness (LOC) run from alert and oriented * 3 to unconscious in a series of steps. There's different scales, but the simplest is AVPU:

A) Alert means that you are capable of noticing what's going on around you. Oriented means you
know at least one of the following three things: who, where, and when you are. I know someone
who perpetually has problems with "when." The times three part means you can answer all of
those questions correctly. Times two, you can answer two of the questions. Times one, you know
who you are. That's usually the last one to go.

V) Verbal, i.e. responsive to verbal stimulus. If the care provider talks to you and you can at
least say "Huh?" you're at that level.

P) Pain, i.e. responsive to pain. If you don't know who are, and don't react to being talked to
(or even shouted at), but do react when someone runs knuckles down your sternum or pinches you
hard, you're responsive to pain.

U) Unconscious or unresponsive is when you don't react to anything.

That's most basic LOC assessment. One can refine it with the Glasgow coma scale which is broken into Eyes, Verbal, and Motor components. I will leave you to the Wikipedia description as it's kind of long. Suffice it to say that I normally worried about AVPU on the scene, but had to note GCS on my reports.

A reduced LOC usually means you need to start looking for head trauma or medical issues in the brain.

Inquisitive Raven

Oh, and technically, they're signs, not symptoms. Signs are something a care provider can objectively assess. Symptoms depend on the self-report of the patient, e.g. if the patient tells you his/her belly hurts, that's a symptom. If the patient knocks your hands away and tries to curl up in a little ball when you press on his/her abdomen, that's a sign.

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