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Sep 24, 2011

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J. Enigma (the Transhumanist)

To save some people from some uncomfortable experiences, my TWs are mixed up.


The satirical article about Africa has no trigger warning, but upon a reread, it might benefit from a TW: Racism (sorry about that, TBAT).

The Personhood article has the TW: Extreme Misogyny and Abortion

The article about sexism and geeks has the TW: Misogyny and Homophobia

The space article is tagged right. Abuse is used as a framing device for the last part of that (it was a carry over from the actual article I was quoting from).

JE

Trigger warning: phyiscal/gendered violence

From J. Enigma's "Sex and the Single Geek":
"[...] in dire need of having their face slapped by their mothers (or, ideally, their fathers [...])"

When you call for violence as means of modifying behavior then you are wrong, no qualifiers, no exceptions. When you do so based partially or wholly on the gender of the victim then you are also a bigoted sexist.

JE

The TW was supposed to be bolded, but I messed up the tag. Could some mod please bold it for me?

Done

J. Enigma (the Transhumanist!)

@JE - Violence doesn't modify behavior. That was more or less irritated hyperbole on my part because I've seen it far too often. I apologize to any who I offended with that remark. I have modified the original text to something that comes off as less offensive.

J. Enigma (the Transhumanist!)

Bah. That should read "I know violence doesn't modify behavior." It's still early for me...

Mmy

Thanks for the post about Troy Davis Sarah -- I just couldn't put together one that said all I wanted to say and yet it seemed wrong not to have posts about it.

sarah

@mmy: Yeah--the story hits right in my gut. I mostly posted others' reactions because I felt like my thoughts were too incoherent.

MercuryBlue

My post about Davis basically consisted of "and we call ourselves a civilized country?"

Mmy

@Sarah & MercuryBlue: One of the reasons that I find it difficult to discuss this is because, for me, the question of a possibly innocent man gets complexly intertwined with my feelings about the death penalty.

Remember, Antonin Scalia said: we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable..

In other words as far as he is concerned the Court should not grant a stay on the basis of innocence.

So what is capital punishment about if not the assured punishment of the guilty? Apparently it as a legal ritual -- a form of blood sacrifice.

I am against capital punishment in any case -- for the man who was killed the same day as Davis (for dragging a man to death behind his truck) as much as for Davis himself.

The extended wait before the execution in order to deliver a one-line denial of the stay begs some type of explanation for motivation. At this point I find myself wandering off into wild theories.

MercuryBlue

Scalia actually said that?

Pardon my language, but WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT MAN DOING ON THE SUPREME COURT?

kisekileia

I'm pretty sure Bush Jr. appointed him.

Mmy

Just looked up Scalia -- he has been on the court a long time. He was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

The gift that keeps on giving.

Ruby

Mmy: I am against capital punishment in any case -- for the man who was killed the same day as Davis (for dragging a man to death behind his truck) as much as for Davis himself.

Therein lies the conundrum for abolition of the death penalty--we spent last week hearing about Davis's appeals, how his family felt, how the victim's family felt. We heard very little about how the family of Lawrence Brewer or his victim felt.

And that's especially odd considering that at least one member of Brewer's victim's family was in favor of life in prison:

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2011/09/other-execution-scheduled-tonight/42771/

I get that it's easier to fight for the cause of Troy Davis than for an unrepentent white supremacist. But I would have preferred more coverage discussing both men and making it clear that the abolitionists were equally against both deaths.

Mmy

@Ruby: One of the things I kept hearing on various American networks was that the request for a stay for Davis should be taken seriously because some of the people asking for it were death penalty supporters. Which means that some of the people involved in the save Davis camp where not against the death penalty they just wanted a way of administering it without worrying that an innocent person had been killed. That made it fall into a frame that the American networks felt more comfortable with than a "we are seen as an immoral nation" one.

I was stunned at how little coverage Brewer's execution got.

Ruby

Mmy: I was stunned at how little coverage Brewer's execution got.

Indeed. Especially because it provided a perfect counterpoint to the abolitionists. For those who are pro-death-penalty, it's hard to think of a better candidate than Brewer: we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that he did it, it was an especially horrific and hate-based crime, and he expressed no remorse.

Ross
So what is capital punishment about if not the assured punishment of the guilty? Apparently it as a legal ritual -- a form of blood sacrifice.

I think one might be able to make the abstract point that a cornerstone of our legal system is that "guilty" is something that is determined by a court of law, and once someone has been "found guilty", they /are/ guilty in some important and real sense, and even if the objective facts of reality are that they did not committ the crime of which they were convicted, they are still, in the legal sense, "guilty", and if that were not the case, it would undermine the judicial system in some fundamental way. Just as a democracy must respect the will of the people, right or wrong, a judiciary must respect the judgment of the court, right or wrong, and we can't go around setting a precident where the decision of the court can be discarded just because of a technicality like "the findings were inconsistent with reality"

Which is an interesting theorhetical argument, except that scalia went and made it with a human life, because scalia is kind of a monster who doesn't value human life

Literata

Removing or downplaying the checks and balances that are supposed to keep the judicial system tied to reality is a short step from admitting spectral evidence. That's a lot more "fundamental" to the citizenry's trust in the judicial system than admitting an error. It's all too similar to the way the NAR wants to affect democracy based on spectral evidence.

JohnK

Which is an interesting theorhetical argument, except that scalia went and made it with a human life, because scalia is kind of a monster who doesn't value human life

Scalia generally disregards the distinction between procedural and substantive due process.

Troy Davis (and most people sentenced to death in recent years) definitely got the former -- he received a full criminal trial followed by a dozen hearings and layers of judicial review and oversight. The underlying problem for his advocates and for death-penalty opponents in general is substantive due process; that is, the basic fairness of law. This is the common law principle that says that it's not enough for a legal judgment to be technically correct -- it also has to place constraints on governmental power and work to ensure the most fair outcome possible.

It's a subjective standard, of course; Scalia and Clarence Thomas -- who are generally originalists in their rulings -- have long been critics of the idea of substantive due process.

Rowen

I'm not sure where to put this, but I figured you guys would like this.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/09/26/firefly-playboy-club-actor-sean-maher-comes-out-ga/

Basically, the actor who played Simon Tam in Firefly has now come out. I was gonna get all excited cause that means I totally have a chance, but he has a partner and two kids, so I'll just have to settle for this being a really big step for him and being proud that he's another beacon of hope.

Tonio
I was stunned at how little coverage Brewer's execution got.

Really? I read plenty of comments accusing liberal opponents of capital punishment of hypocrisy because they were allegedly focusing on Davis and not on Brewer. This sounded like projection to me - the accusation implied that the opponents saw one as deserving of death and the other didn't, perhaps because that's how the accusers think.

I'm an abolitionist on capital punishment for these reasons:

1. No one deserves to die, and the state should not be in the business of deciding who does or doesn't deserve to die.

2. Looking at the racial and income disparities in sentencing, it's a really a referendum on the likability of the victims.

3. Since human beings are not just biased but also fallible, there's no reason to have a sentence that can't be reversed if exonerating evidence appears. You can't unexecute an innocent person. (Imagine the governor going to the person's family and saying, "Whoops, our bad!")

4. It's a punishment of the innocent as well, namely the convict's family because they lose their loved one.

So what is capital punishment about if not the assured punishment of the guilty? Apparently it as a legal ritual -- a form of blood sacrifice.

I compare it to the cliché in black-and-white film era of villages sacrificing virgins to appease the angry volcano. Perhaps for many people, murders produce a fear that something has gone deeply wrong and the entire community will suffer if amends aren't made. That may not fully express the sense I'm going for. But as an analogy, it's been alleged that societies become more sexually puritanical during times of economic stress, as if they're subconsciously anthropomorphizing the threat and assuming that it's angry with them.

Tonio
being proud that he's another beacon of hope.

I wouldn't feel comfortable describing openly gay celebrities that way, because I would feel like I'm implying that all gay celebrities have an obligation to disclose their sexuality. There are activists who make a point of outing celebrities against their will. I might understand if we were talking about celebrities pretending to be straight. But I want room for celebrities of all persuasions to be able to keep their sexual lives private, something that Anderson Cooper says he wants and something that many straight celebrities also want. I recognize the contradiction in this, because I also want a society where people don't think twice about seeing gay couples holding hands in public or dining out.

Pthalo

It seems to me, and this is only coming from having read that one article and not otherwise having any concept of who this random actor guy is (I cannot recognise actors from one movie/show to the next and have terrible face/name recognition for them, so for me, all celebrities when they aren't going by the character name they used in a show I watch, are just "some person i don't know who's being interviewed for some reason"), so I don't have any inside opinion on this guy, but it seems to me that coming out was a personal choice for him, something he struggled with and decided that he needed to do in order to be more himself and that it was a relief for him. So, I'm glad he came out. Good on him. It seems like this will make his life more comfortable, and it will affect the people important to him in a positive way.

I'm against those jerks who go around outing people because it's wrong. Celebrities should come out if they are comfortable doing so, because it really does help the cause, but they should also have the right to maintain a separation between the public and private spheres of their lives, that is, they have the right to not be out if they don't want to be.

Also, over here in eastern europe where it can be quite dangerous to be out, I can see quite clearly why people don't come out more. The pride marches over here to include "wear good running shoes and don't bring anything to pride you can't take off in public and stuff in your backpack" in the directions handed out to participants. Yeah, a celebrity probably wouldn't be physically attacked the way a person exiting a gay bar might be, but their career could still be ruined. Coming out is a personal choice and it's up to each person when to do it.

I'm semi-out. My friends and family all know. But I still say "my partner" instead of "my future wife" to acquaintances, and if I worked outside of the home, I would say this to colleagues as well. And to the scary random guys who approach me with some regularity on the street to find out if I want to go out with them? I tell them I have a boyfriend, even when I was a single. Because that's the only safe answer. And sometimes even that's enough. I've gotten "well, he wouldn't have to know!" before as well. I was single at the time and had to explain how much I loved my imaginary boyfriend and how *I* would know and that was enough for me. Eventually, the loser backed off.

Man, straight guys in their 20s, glad I'm a lesbian so I don't have to date them.

(any straight guys here in their 20s here, don't be offended by that statement. If you're not the sort who thinks a busy sidewalk is a good place to find dates, then this isn't directed at you.)

Pthalo

About capital punishment, I'm for it, but not for the way it's currently implemented. It would be better not to have it at all than to have it the way it's done in countries where it is allowable. We don't have capital punishment here in Hungary, but I used to live in the US, and I have the most knowledge of what is done in the US, so I'll talk about the US.

It's financially unsound: because of all of the appeals processes (which are necessary checks and balances to prevent an innocent person's execution), it really is cheaper to sentence a person to life in prison than to sentence them for execution. This should be a good enough reason to do away with it for the people who aren't against it for moral reasons.

It is morally unsound: because of racial biases in the process at every level, from the generational poverty that a disproportionate number of minorities are living in, the discrepencies in the quality of education between white middle class and poor neighbourhoods, the prejudices minorities face everywhere they go, all day long, day in and day out, to people getting pulled over for driving while coloured, to police brutality against minorities, to prejudiced jury members and judges, harsher sentencing for minorities and the disproportionate number of minorities on death row. Even if only guilty people are executed, which we know cannot be the case because humans are fallible, until the systemic prejudices can be addresssed, the system will remain as broken as it is.

But I do believe that the death penalty could be reimplemented in a future society that is different from our own, one built on different foundations.

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