« Board Post, January 19 2012 | Main | Updated -- This week in The Slacktiverse, January 21/22 2012 »

Jan 20, 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Laiima

Lonespark, this was lovely. And I learned more about Heathenry. Yay!

Laiima

Up until last year, I'd never been part of a community of religious people where I felt welcome. I always felt like I was an annoyance, or a problem to be dealt with. In fact, that's how I felt almost everywhere I went. So the idea of a community where I'm not just physically present, but people *want me to be there*, is an ideal I've always longed for, but rarely felt.

That has impacted my relationships to my gods and even my beloved dead. If they could choose to be with anyone (since they're gods, or dead), would they really choose to be with me, right now? Or my houseplants - if they could get away, would they?

It's hard to come up with philosophies for dealing with people with respect and integrity and empathy when, for the most part, I'm guessing how that actually plays out. Even when I was in contact with my family, for any family event, I had to brace myself to be ambushed by the presence of my cousin-the-rapist, or people haranguing me about him, or telling me I was a loser, or just ignoring me (sometimes while they then fawned over Spouse, since he's a guy, so he matters).

Like, I'm not just a solitary practitioner because I'm an introvert; I'm solitary because I'd prefer to use my energy interacting with nonhumans, not protecting myself from humans. Maybe that's why I'm not sure my gods are humanoid.

Deird, who is very interested

Fascinating post is fascinating. :)

Lonespark

Thanks for reading, y'all.

Lonespark

What do you mean by gods not being humanoid, Laiima?

Like, I don't think gods are particularly human-like beings, or that we're "made in their image" or anything in any simplistic way. And I don't think most of the wights/spirits/powers/what have you have any particularly human characteristics, excepting those that have been human, and even then...what part of a person, or a person's soul, lives on or is connected to...whatever?

About Aesir/Vanir specifically...I think human-like in some ways is a part of what they are. That could certainly be an artifact of us interpreting interactions with them or myths about them through our own cultural lenses...

Laiima

@Lonespark, I guess I tend to default to thinking that the gods would show us 'human-like' faces, or aspects? Not to imply that those faces or aspects would be their totality at all, just, that's what we can understand and relate to. Except that, when I try to picture my gods, they don't look human.

+ So Tethys is the depths of the ocean, and when She looks like a being, it's a whale.
+ I never have come up with a shape at all for Medeine. Maybe She's the forest itself? Or liminal spaces? Or the wildness in the dark of night?
+ Ereshkigal is a voice over my shoulder. I'm more aware of her familiars/animal spirits, which for me are turkey vultures.

So, how could I invite any of these beings to hang out with me? For that matter, I've never experienced them all at once. Would they get along? How would I know? Do I need to know?

I guess I've been needing more polytheists in my life to discuss stuff with!

Slow Learner

*Sympathy on having trouble selling yourself goes here*.

I'm looking for work at the moment; one of the things I find toughest is putting in the parts selling yourself in the applications.

Izzy

@Laiima: For what it's worth, I've rarely seen faces or shapes myself, except for one or two occasions when someone was...channeling? contacting? stuff?...during a ritual. Mostly, I get feelings and senses; not all at times or in places that I would have considered pleasant. Cold wind on a starry night. That sort of thing.

@Lonespark: This essay? Is awesome. I hear you on the trouble-selling-yourself thing. I didn't put my reviews on LJ until a friend of mine said I should, because it felt like bragging, and...one doesn't. Mid-Atlantic WASP culture--also Presbyterian, if very very lapsed about it--and, well, you're only supposed to be the center of attention three times in your life. That sort of thing.

Laiima

@Lonespark, I should have said, you sound pretty impressive here. And I know stuff you left out. It's hard to sell yourself, but I think you did a really good job here. :)

Lonespark

Thanks for the compliments, everyone.

When I wrote this I felt like the situation was improving. Lately not so much.

But I am super-duper excited to have met some local Heathens and be heading to a blot (ritual)tomorrow if the weather allows. It's a Skadi blot, so I guess snow is...appropriate.

hapax

I didn't know anything about Skadi except the story of the beauty contest she had for a husband.

Just looking her up on Wikipedia, she is badass.

storiteller

I'm looking for work at the moment; one of the things I find toughest is putting in the parts selling yourself in the applications.

See, the thing is, I have no problem talking about myself to others - the amount I enjoy it is kind of embarrassing. I love telling stories about my experiences. But despite that, applying for jobs was hideous. Writing cover letters involves a way of selling yourself that I think is completely unnatural to human experience. Instead of telling stories, you're forced to strip the context off of all of the lessons you've learned, boil them down to these vague sounding unhelpful adjectives, and describe your actions in verbs never used outside of a resume. When they do ask for stories, they're always like, "Describe one time you demonstrated wonderful customer service." And of course, whatever you would truly answer is never what they're looking for. Then, after you've shown off as much as possible and don't get called back, you feel like you could never be good enough.

So I completely sympathize with that side. I looked for a job for four months before the recession and it was one of the worst parts of my life. I can't imagine doing it now.

storiteller

Just looking her up on Wikipedia, she is badass.

I love the first picture of her - can't go wrong with skis and archery as a combination.

Amaryllis

That is a great picture, all right.

But thanks for telling me about Bragi, too. I looked him up, and I have to have a spot spot for any deity who spends his time considering poetry, of course!

Fascinating post is indeed fascinating. Also the comments.
Ereshkigal is a voice over my shoulder -- now there's a genuine touch of the numinous.


their greatest concern is that I'll leave candles unattended.
Hah. My daughter still lives at home, and has a non-religious fondness for scented candles that keeps her father, well, concerned.

Still, it's nice that your blended family is able to blend its traditions with a minimum of friction.

Job-interviewing and resume-writing are indeed horrible. I'd probably have gotten further in my career if I'd made myself do more of it. And as for writing up one's own performance appraisals, ugh! Say too little and it looks you did too little, or don't care; but how do you know when enough is too much? And "resume-ese"? Nobody talks like that!

I don't think the reluctance to brag is universal, though; I know people who seem to have no trouble talking themselves up.

Lonespark

Yeah, it's not universal. A lot of people are great at networking. Also I am better at it when I am slightly drunk, since I am then less terrified of consequences.

Launcifer

@Storiteller: That sounds like the most awesome variation on the biathlon that I have ever encountered.

Lonespark

...and...not going to blot. Too much snow for a long drive to a colder place.

Laiima, if you lived nearby I would like to go out for tea/coffee/muffins/whatever and talk about gods and animals and myths and stuff.

I will think a bit about how I perceive or interact with gods. Because it's generally not as human-shaped, human-acting beings, unless I'm specifically thinking about a myth that refers to them weaving or brushing their hair or whatever.

Laiima

Lonespark, I would like that too. If you're ever planning to be back down in the mid-Atlantic, let me know, so I can try to get together. Literata's in northern VA - maybe all 3 of us could talk? (And now I really want that to be possible!)

I'm really glad you wrote this post. Lots of food for thought, and interesting discussion.

P J Evans

I have the feeling that 'in God's image' is not about physical image, but about spiritual image - it's why we love creating, whatever it is that you and I create (art, crafts, writing, music, architecture, engineering everything that we can look at and say 'it's good!').

Lonespark

That makes sense, PJ Evans. In the case of a multi-deity pantheon, especially one like the Norse/Germanic where there are different "tribes" of gods/Giants/elves etc., it's not as much a matter of gods creating people anyway, but many of them do have powers or affinities related to creation/birth/rebirth...

There is the myth of the three gods creating people...but if we are created as humans, what does that mean? Maybe it means we become able to recognize that creative ability within ourselves, the power to name and shape and plan and judge...

Nenya

I've just realized that I keep mixing up Lonespark and Literata, and to a lesser extent Laiima. What is it about Heathen Slacktivites and L-names? Perhaps you're all connected through L-space?

(Though you'd better not have your coffee and muffins there. You might never emerge to see daylight again!)

On-topic: Lonespark, I'm going to have to reread this and think more on it. I, too, have the problem of not wanting to brag on myself, and I find that if I can't or don't say what I'm good at or what I've done well lately, I start to think that I never do anything well, and that's not good for me. So, thank you.

Karen

Great post. Lonespark, I'm 1) redheaded and 2) a Texan, so I'm about as introverted as an explosion. I don't have stage fright, start conversations with random strangers in airports, and still have trouble writing resumes. There's being outgoing and bragging, and resumes always sound like bragging.

On the post itself: I love your descriptions of your religious practice, especially how your grandmother is a household protector. I feel a strong connection to both of my grandmothers, and love the idea that they protect my household and children, even though they never met my kids. Also, I love to ski and really, really want a Skadi sweater to wear the nect time I go skiing. At least a sticker to put on the skis themselves.

Finally, there is a great piece of poetry in Old English called something that translates into "The Savior" that shows Jesus as a Germanic prince with his thanes, that uses imagery from Germanic and Scandinavian mythology. It's a remarkably inspiring work, and I would love to find a good translation again.

Ross

Grumble. It's finally happened. Work content filter has declared all blogspot URLs to be "mature content" and blocked them in their never-ending quest to stop me from filling up the ceaseless hours of waiting my job entails. Pretty soon, it'll just be google and ESPN you can get to from here.

Amaryllis

Work content filter has declared all blogspot URLs to be "mature content" and blocked them

Huh. So it has. Grumble.

Lonespark

Sorry, Ross. Blocking is always so random, and unrelated to actual productivity-killers or liabilities.

When I worked in a factory with downtime while we waited for machines and shipments, I mostly wrote poetry. Luckily, it was a book factory, so there was plenty of scrap paper.

Karen,
Thanks for mentioning that poem; I would love to look it up. Learning about Christian syncretist traditions is fun! It even helps me be less baffled/annoyed whilst reading Narnia. (Well, ok, letting Ana read it for me.)

There are a lot of strong, wise, accomplished women in my family, and my husband's family, and mentors from church and school. We didn't always get along, because they had definite ideas and expectations and I was struggling a lot and not understanding why, but my kids and I have a lot of role models and protective spirits, for sure.

Diona the Lurker

@Karen: the poem you describe sounds like The Dream of the Rood. Various translations are on the Internet; here's one:

http://www.thing.net/~grist/ld/young/ky-drc.htm

Amaryllis

@Karen: or maybe you were talking about The Heliand?

Amazon offers a couple of translations, but I can't find anything online either.

gleomstapa spamflagging

I believe the comment at 01:31 above is spam, though I don't think I've seen the charity-flavored variety before.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Fred Clark now posts at Patheos.
Click here for his latest post.
Email Us
(The Board Administration Team)

L.B. Archives

sitemeter