Imbolc - Poesis

Trigger Warning: Birth referred to abstractly

So far in this series, I haven't written much about magic, or about specific deities, but for Imbolc, I'd like to delve into both areas, and in particular the way that my matron goddess, Brigid, helps me understand magic.

There are lots of Celtic influences in Wicca, and one of the most obvious is the Sabbat of Imbolc, which is traditionally the feast of the goddess Brigid. ^[1] No other Sabbat is so closely tied to a particular deity; even the rebirth of the Sun at Yule can be interpreted within a multitude of cultural contexts, historical and modern. And while Imbolc can be celebrated as the recovery from that rebirth and presage of spring, many people come together to honor Brigid at this time of year. She is an enormously popular matron and a figure that nearly anyone can turn to, which is perhaps why she was adopted as a Catholic saint and her worship continues in multiple forms down to the present day. I think her continuing popularity and accessibility are due in part to the way she embodies some of the fundamental ideas of magic as a way of interacting with the world.

Traditionally, Brigid has three specialties: she is the matron of healing, especially midwifery; of smith craft; and of poetry. Her history as a healer would be enough to explain her popularity, since nearly everyone needs healing at some point. But the other two areas seem like a strange combination: blacksmithing is not usually associated with either healing or poetry, and it is even more unexpected for a goddess to take an interest in what is traditionally a male-dominated craft. But the piece that seems not to fit is in fact the key to understanding the relationship between all three areas, as well as her continuing presence in Wicca. Smith craft is just that, a craft, and healing and poetry can be approached as crafts as well. It is this idea of crafting in many different forms that makes Brigid such a good representative of witchcraft as well.

Another way to understand this is to start with the idea of poetry. This English word comes from a Greek root, poiesis, which has to do with the whole concept of crafting and creating, almost in the sense of shaping. ^[2] To me, the way a skilled poet can go to the heart of a matter with just a single word exemplifies poesis. By the very faculty of naming and describing, poesis can influence the nature of a thing. This is not creation ex nihilo; it's about emergence and shaping the way something develops in the world.

All three of Brigid's areas are forms of poesis: healing is a process of transforming a situation, and a midwife in particular has the unique opportunity to help both mother and baby. Blacksmithing is also literally a process of shaping and forging something; it turns lumps of rock into useful tools. As these examples show, poesis is not just about words, but to me, the use of language in shaping reality is one of the most amazing examples. When a skilled writer crafts sounds and squiggles to produce meaning . . . well, that's why we call it poetry. To me, all of these are magical processes, making Brigid fundamentally a goddess of magic itself.

Now, when I say that smithing is a magical process, I don't mean that it is purely magic in the "Harry Potter" sense: the smith doesn't wave a wand and instantaneously transfigure iron ore into horseshoes. The very idea of sorcerous shortcuts eliminating the hard work and necessary effort of the craft is antithetical to my understanding of magic. It doesn't break the laws of nature, it works within them, just like everything else in the world. ^[3] This is why I don't tend to ask whether something is "magic" or not. Instead I ask how magical it is. Think of something as simple as a seed sprouting: I can understand the biology, the chemistry, and the physics of it, but the simple fact that an apparently inert object can, under the right circumstances, transform itself into a living being thriving on simply dirt, water, and light is magical. It fills me with awe and joy. It is the numinous in the mundane which is characteristic of what I call magic.

Looked at this way, healing is also terrifically magical, whether it comes about because of meditation and mind-body work, or because of pharmaceuticals and surgery, or (better yet) some of each. Terry Pratchett observed that stopping someone from choking "doesn't even sound magical until you understand that a way of turning nearly dead people into fully alive people is worth a dozen spells that just go twing!" ^[4] If you've ever seen someone suffering from low blood sugar have a dose of glucose administered, you'd think it was downright miraculous: in a matter of minutes, a person can go from passed out cold to walking and talking as if nothing ever happened. Understanding how that works so that healers can use it to help people, to make a difference in the world, makes it even more magical to me.

When I practice magic, it is closest to a form of poetry. I may use many different tools - stones, herbs, candles, cords - but what I'm doing, deep down, is describing things, crafting an understanding of the world that transforms from one thing to another, the way that the twist of a good poem suddenly transforms your understanding from one thing to another: snowflakes aren't just snowflakes, they're bits of lace. That juxtaposition of different understandings that changes the whole situation is the closest I can come to expressing what practicing magic is like.

These acts then become part of the narrative that I am making of my life, and taking that narrative into my own hands is most magical of all. It empowers me and it challenges me: if I really have these choices, what do I do with them? It helps me be more the storyteller and poet of my own life. I don't have complete control, of course; this isn't a work of fiction. But here in reality, it makes a difference, even about the things it can't change. Magic and poesis do not "magically" fix all of the hard situations in my life. They help me face hard things gracefully, with understanding.

--Literata

---

^[1] There are myriad ways to spell the name of this goddess, including Brighid, Breed, Brigit, and more.↩

^[2] See poesis. It actually comes by way of Latin, because while the Romans excelled in rhetoric and oratory, they admired Greek civilization for its much older and broader tradition of literature in all forms, and many of the great Roman writers considered themselves students of this Greek heritage. Another form of this root survives in medical terms like hematopoiesis, the process by which blood is created.↩

^[3] This is why I both agree and disagree with Clarke's Third Law: yes, technology can be magical, but to me, obfuscation is not a necessary part of magic. Understanding how something works increases my appreciation for the wonder of it and is part of why I find things magical.↩

^[4] Pratchett, Terry. A Hat Full of Sky. New York: HarperTrophy, 2005. page 379.↩

Final note:

Here at The Slacktiverse, we've now completed one cycle of the Wheel of the Year. I'd like to get some feedback from the community about whether there is continuing interest in more posts for Sabbats. If there is, I thought I might use the next cycle to explore other aspects of Wicca such as the four Elements, commonly used tools, forms of work and worship, and possibly some connections to Tarot. What do you think?

---

 

The Slacktiverse is a community blog. Content reflects the individual opinions of the contributors. We welcome disagreement in the comment threads, and invite anyone who wishes to present an alternative interpretation of a situation to write and submit a post.

Comments

[Laiima]

That was lovely, Literata, and very timely for my life right now. This is the first written piece I've read about Brighid that resonated for me.

(The pronunciation can be 'breed' because in Gaelic when 'gh' occurs in the middle of a word, it's silent. So 'brighid' is pronounced like 'briid'.)

I would personally be very interested in whatever Wiccan-related thing you wanted to write about.

[sarah]

This is lovely, Literata. Thank you.

[Laiima]

Here's something about Metaphor that I read just this afternoon, which seems apt. (As a fiber artist, I esp like the references to fiber art forms.)

"From the perspective of psyche, metaphor is the root of relatedness, the linking of things, events, and constellations of experience. ... Metaphor is a very short story that stitches the world together, weaving similarities with recognition and language." ~ Laura Sewall, Sight and Sensibility: the Ecopsychology of Perception, p. 145

[Froborr]

@Literata: I rarely comment much on these posts, because I have nothing intelligent or useful to say on them,* but I am always happy to see them. I'd definitely like to see more, if you want to write it.

*"So why do you comment on anything else?" asks the cynical wag in my head.

[Nick Kiddle]

//Instead I ask how magical it is. Think of something as simple as a seed sprouting: I can understand the biology, the chemistry, and the physics of it, but the simple fact that an apparently inert object can, under the right circumstances, transform itself into a living being thriving on simply dirt, water, and light is magical.//

This reminds me of a bit from "The Hounds of the Morrigan", a children's book which, as the name suggests, draws heavily on Irish traditions. The two child protagonists, walking along the magical path that takes them into adventure, discuss magic:

"There's always a lot of magic, but our way of seeing it is very small and we mostly just call it Nature. Why, we are not at all surprised that we can pick an apple in the autumn that was a pink flower in the spring. That's natural magic and we don't really notice it."
"Yes, and what about butter?" Brigit said. [...] "It's hard and it comes out of something soft. It's yellow and it comes out of something white. Just by battering the cream with the dasher. It comes in little, weeny graineens and when you rock the churn, it turns into lumps. That's magic."

[Literata]

Thanks, everyone!

Laiima, I'm going to have to look that up; metaphor is one of the important ideas in my dissertation, so thank you for pointing me to such an excellent discussion of it!

Froborr, there are lots of things that I feel similarly about; sometimes I like to read about something I don't know a lot about (and therefore have little to say about) precisely because I don't know much about it. If that's even vaguely related to what you're feeling, then I'm very honored.

[Amaryllis]

thought I might use the next cycle to explore other aspects of Wicca such as the four Elements, commonly used tools, forms of work and worship, and possibly some connections to Tarot. What do you think?
Yes, please.

This English word comes from a Greek root, poiesis, which has to do with the whole concept of crafting and creating, almost in the sense of shaping.
The Scots referred to poets of a particular bardic tradition as "makars" or "makers." According to Wikipedia, they "combined skillful artifice with natural diction."

The Hounds of the Morrigan
I remember that book!
And Brigit, and Saint Brigid, certainly knew from butter. And also beer, and bread-- more magic. You start with simple grains and water, and you end up with something entirely new.

[Walid]

Could you put a trigger warning on the top of this article for witchcraft? I'm a Muslim and witchcraft is forbidden in my religion.

[The Board Administration Team]

@Walid: Nope, because that is not what trigger warnings are for.

[MercuryBlue]

I'd like to get some feedback from the community about whether there is continuing interest in more posts for Sabbats. If there is, I thought I might use the next cycle to explore other aspects of Wicca such as the four Elements, commonly used tools, forms of work and worship, and possibly some connections to Tarot.

Bring it on.

[Walid]

It's very upsetting to me to see something like this being discussed openly. The Prophet (saw) has said "Whoever goes to a fortune-teller and asks him about something, his prayer will not be accepted for forty days." Discussing of sihr is haraam to me. I'm not asking for it be removed, just a warning on all discussion of sihr practices.

[The Board Administration Team]

@Walid: Repeat. This is not the purpose of TRIGGER WARNINGS -- which are to warn people that further on in an article or comment a subject will appear. The first sentence of this article So far in this series, I haven't written much about magic, or about specific deities, but for Imbolc, I'd like to delve into both areas, serves as a warning as to what is coming.

[Deird, who is put off by the phrasing of "discussed openly"]

Plus, upsetting isn't necessarily the same thing as triggering...

[Walid]

But by the time I have read that sentence, I have already heard about Imbolc and the heathen goddess, and I fear it is haraam. I wouldn't have clicked this artcile at all, but it is not clear to me from the title that "Imbolc - Poesis" refers to a form of kufr.

I have very bad feelings because of this.

Please, if not trigger warning, just some warning that it is not talking about one of hte Earlier Revelations or about unbelievers like most of the articles on this site. Those articles are fine for me, since the Koran outlines how to deal with the errors of the Jews and the Christians.

[Deird, who thinks you should read more closely]

talking about one of hte Earlier Revelations or about unbelievers like most of the articles on this site.

Uhhh... since when?

[Froborr]

@Walid: If you do not want to hear about beliefs that differ from your own, this is not a good place to spend your time, because it is the express purpose of this site. There are plenty of places on the Internet where you can hear only one viewpoint, if that is your wish; this is not one of them.

Of course, since you are probably not actually commenting in good faith, but are in fact a troll wandered over from freethoughtblogs trying to make a juvenile point about trigger warnings, I suspect my advice will avail you little.

[Nick Kiddle]

//And also beer, and bread-- more magic.//

Oooooh, yeast is so much magical. Especially raspberry wine - you basically just stick everything in a glass vessel and it transforms itself. I could write the formula for the chemical processes, but it's still magical the way it happens.

Also, xCLP strikes me as magical very often. I had sex this one time in a bed-and-breakfast, and that started off a process which resulted in this brilliant* amazing* child. It's a perfectly normal biological process, but at the same time ... wow.

*There's a great deal of parental bias in these statement, of course. Then again, we find our children amazing because they very often *are*. That "click" moment when they start to understand something new about the world...

[Literata]

Well, since I don't pray to your god, that's not a problem for me, then. As far as I can tell, that prohibition means that _you_ shouldn't engage with these practices. You can pretty much bet that anything from me with a funny word at the front is one of the (long series) of Wheel of the Year posts, so if you really want to, you can just avoid those.

TW: discussion of triggers, transhumanism, animal abuse

This blog has always been about thoughtful, polite engagement with people of a wide spectrum of backgrounds, especially different religious traditions or none. AFAIK, the only trigger warning on a philosophical position that gets used is the one on transhumanism, because I requested it. J Enigma's type of transhumanism inherently involve things that come across to me as animal abuse. He stated that since he didn't see it as abuse, but it was fundamental to his philosophy, the TW transhumanism would be preferable. But that's not there because I disagree with his position on religious grounds (although I do on those grounds also), it's there because multiple people thought it was a reasonable accomodation, not a religious disagreement.

Are you also going to ask us to warn before posting about pork and alcohol?

[Mmy]

@Froborr: Was sorta, kinda, thinking the same thing myself.

BTW, how you enjoying your internet infamy? I'm collecting "moderately well known in small niche sections of the internet" persons who have personally insulted me cards.

Of course -- none of them outweigh the head-of-a-Canadian-regulatory-body slap down or the "you are an economic determinist" accusation -- but there are still hours left in the day.

[Sixwing]

The statement that it is the numinous in the mundane which is characteristic of what I call magic really resonates with me, in a very good way. Thanks for such a clear way of phrasing that!

I think there's some mileage in the idea that magic has to not be understood (understandable) in order to be defined as magic - it plays a significant part in some of my favorite works of fiction - but I think applying it in the real world leads to a sort of "magic of the gaps" situation, in which it would be less magical to make beer because we know how fermentation works than it was before we knew about yeasts.

Since "God of the Gaps" theology is a major problem, I'd assume "Magic of the Gaps" would be just as much a problem. Finding beauty and meaning and magic and numinosity in known, understandable processes works a lot better with my mindset. =)

You make magic sound like conceptual poetry, and that is just really Very Cool.

[Walid]

On the front page there is listed: article about 'Black/African American History Month' (halal) and 'LGBT History Month' (might be haraam but has no detail of homosexual practices, not like this article)... article about Christian propaganda tracts "Left Behind" (halal, especially since pointing out blatant errors of those who follow the incomplete Christian Revelation) ... open thread about materials to craft with (halal, provided you don't make any haraam images, although there are many opinions about what images are permitted) ... article against unbeliever PZ Myers ... links to many things I don't understand but I don't need to follow ... open thread, more atheism, Chinese New Year (not haraam to read about if I don't celebrate it), more links.

Only this post is clearly haraam. There is a hadith that tells how even the Prophet (saw) was bewitched by the Jew Labid ibn Al-A'sam, so it is possible I, who is so much more humble than the Prophet (saw), could be bewitched by Literata through this post.

[Sixwing]

@Walid, perhaps you should not engage with it, then; having been warned clearly by the very first sentence, you might choose not to read further.

That is, after all, the purpose of such warnings: they permit one to make a decision about what content you mean to engage with.

[Anonymous]

The Koran also outlines that Allah is Ar-rahman (The Merciful), Al-rahim (The Compassionate), and Al-'Adl (the Just), Al Ghafur (The Forgiving), Al-Wadud (The Loving), to name a few. If your reading the first few words of this article was haram, it was also an accident. Now you know to avoid the articles with the unknown words in the titles, so in the future you won't have to worry.

[Deird, who loves Daniel even though he pisses her off]

I think there's some mileage in the idea that magic has to not be understood (understandable) in order to be defined as magic - it plays a significant part in some of my favorite works of fiction - but I think applying it in the real world leads to a sort of "magic of the gaps" situation, in which it would be less magical to make beer because we know how fermentation works than it was before we knew about yeasts.

Plus, it leads to Daniel Jackson (from Stargate) really pissing me off.

Newsflash, Daniel: you're using thoughts to control the weather, opening portals using pretty crystals, fighting dragons, and talking to immortal spirit beings who are predestined to pull swords from stones.* Just because you have a scientific explanation (that being "Ah, but someone designed the thought-controlled weather, and it works through thought control, NOT magic"), doesn't mean it's not magical. YOU SPENT A YEAR AS A FLOATY BEING OF ETERNAL LIGHT. STOP TELLING PEOPLE MAGIC DOESN'T EXIST.

__________

* I'm almost certainly confusing plotlines, here. It was much easier to argue coherently about this when I'd just watched the show that week.

[Froborr]

Vote to ban obvious troll.

[Deird, who is slightly annoyed]

Chinese New Year (not haraam to read about if I don't celebrate it)

How is that not haraam if you don't celebrate it, but this is? You're not worshipping Brigid, are you?

There is a hadith that tells how even the Prophet (saw) was bewitched by the Jew Labid ibn Al-A'sam, so it is possible I, who is so much more humble than the Prophet (saw), could be bewitched by Literata through this post.

That comes across to me as accusing Literata of deliberately using witchcraft against you. Which is an unfounded accusation, and profoundly rude.

[hapax]

"Magic of the Gaps"

But gaps *are* inherently magical, aren't they? Or at least, they are almost by definition liminal. And thresholds are places of transformation, where outside becomes inside or public becomes private or mine beomes yours -- or really, anywhere this becomes that.

All category breaches are places of power, and danger, where eager lurking numinous can sneak through...

(Not disagreeing, really. Just riffing.)

[Deird, who needs chocolate]

Vote to ban obvious troll.

I'd vote against. Even if she is a troll, she's not recklessly triggering people. I'd be unhappy with our community banning people for more trivial varieties of trolling.

[Deird, who is fascinated]

But gaps *are* inherently magical, aren't they? Or at least, they are almost by definition liminal. And thresholds are places of transformation, where outside becomes inside or public becomes private or mine beomes yours -- or really, anywhere this becomes that.

hapax, I like your thoughts and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Sixwing]

@Deird whaaaaaaaaat? XD Now I kind of want to watch Stargate, even if that attitude would be really annoying. Of course, I have Doctor Who to watch first - SixSpouse got the entire part with the 9th Doctor as a gift recently and we haven't even gotten into it. (Sorry, I will endeavour not to turn the thread into Doctor Who on the first page.)

[Sixwing]

@hapax, I like your thoughts too! And yes, as a person very interested in (and often inhabiting) liminal spaces, do you deliver newsletters to The Gaps?

[Froborr]

@Deird: My vote was based on a comment containing both a racist and a misogynistic slur that TBAT swiftly deleted.

[The Board Administration Team]

@Deird: she's not recklessly triggering people

Oh, yeah, some of the comments have been racist and misogynist and used denigrating epithets aimed at particular groups of people. We have just been taking them down faster than some people on the board have been seeing them.

[hapax]

@Walid -- Please look up at the upper right corner of this website and click on the link "Read the FNEs: (Frequently Needed Explanations)".

The reasoning behind and usage of "trigger warnings" at this site are clearly explained there.

"Trigger" does NOT mean "anything that might upset someone."

If you continue to comment in this fashion without referencing that explanation, it will be assumed that you are not arguing in bad faith, but are merely trolling, and will be treated accordingly.

[Deird, who watches silly shows]

Sixwing - Stargate starts out as a kinda lacklustre series of landing on a new Planet Of The Hats every week, but very quickly realises that they are very good at being silly, totally outrageous, and completely fascinating. It's worth watching, if you can deal with occasionally yelling at your television.

(It annoyed me enough that my blog acquired its very own Stargate is Annoying Me tag - but I still liked it enough to watch all ten seasons and fansquee.)

[Deird, who should probably get off this post anyway and do work or something]

Oh, yeah, some of the comments have been racist and misogynist and used denigrating epithets aimed at particular groups of people. We have just been taking them down faster than some people on the board have been seeing them.

Well... thanks! I'm very glad to have TBAT putting in so much hard work so the rest of us aren't getting horribly triggered. *hugs TBAT*

[MercuryBlue]

Please, if not trigger warning, just some warning that it is not talking about one of hte Earlier Revelations or about unbelievers like most of the articles on this site. Those articles are fine for me, since the Koran outlines how to deal with the errors of the Jews and the Christians.

I am about to be very childish.

ASHERAH BASTET COVENTINA DHAT-BADAN ERZULIE FREYJA GALLIMH-INION-BREASAIL HEL ILMATAR JULUNGGUL KONOHANASAKUYA-HIME LAKSHMI MAYARI NABIA OYNYNEA-MARIA PUKKEENEGAK QAMAITS RANA-NIEJTA SPIDER-GRANDMOTHER TLAZOLTEOTL URANIA VENUS WOHPE XI-WANGMU YEMANJÁ ZEMYNA.

Haraam that.

Have a lovely day, now!

[Literata]

Thank you, TBAT, for your hard work.

hapax, yup, gaps are magical and liminal. :)

And yes, "magic of the gaps" is one of the things that I have ginormous problems with and would like to work to change in the broader Pagan culture. And Daniel from Stargate is hilarious in that regard!

----- To Walid
I'm really glad I haven't seen some of the slurs that TBAT has been removing.

First, if you're really worried about me "bewitching" you, why are you still commenting here? Deird is right that that borders on an accusation of manipulative magic and is deeply offensive to me.

Second, if it's haraam for you to even _read_ certain things, how are you dealing with the rest of the Internet? Yes, we try to be safer and give TWs, but we're not responsible for your religious purity. Does reading about Stargate and potentially magical practices cause problems for you? How am I supposed to know what's haraam in your interpretation?

And I really don't appreciate the idea that I'm some third-class kind of citizen, worse than the People of the Book and totally untouchable, needing to be screened off from the rest of the world. If you really think that, you really don't belong here.

One last time, all together now: Religious disagreement is not what TWs are for.

[MercuryBlue]

might be haraam but has no detail of homosexual practices, not like this article

So tempted to find some lesbian stuff on YouPorn and link it here for Walid's benefit. So so tempted.

[Literata]

One last thought before I go offline for a bit - MB, save that for the Beltane post. :)

[MercuryBlue]

Which 'that'?

[Literata]

Oh, the videos. The names are good here. :)

[MercuryBlue]

Beltane's gonna be fun, isn't it? I mean that in a completely non-sarcastic way.

[Coleslaw]

Of course, since you are probably not actually commenting in good faith, but are in fact a troll wandered over from freethoughtblogs trying to make a juvenile point about trigger warnings, I suspect my advice will avail you little.

I suppose Walid could be a troll from FTB, but the blogs I read there tend to be harsh on racist and misogynist stuff and TBAT says Walid has been posting some of that.

[mercredigirl]

@MercuryBlue:

Beltane's gonna be fun, isn't it? I mean that in a completely non-sarcastic way.

Reader, I lol'd! :)

[Lonespark]

Haven't read the other comments, yet, but.

Yay, another Wheel post!

Obligatory Small Gods Quote: "Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it isn't still a miracle."

[Lonespark]

Since "God of the Gaps" theology is a major problem, I'd assume "Magic of the Gaps" would be just as much a problem. Finding beauty and meaning and magic and numinosity in known, understandable processes works a lot better with my mindset. =)

Well, there's knowing and, well...grokking. Spanish has two verbs for "know" that get at it a bit, IMO. The map is not the territory, the model not the atom (or, well, none of the models are the atom, the mineral, the hydrodynamic, geochemical system...) the aspect or avatar not the Deity, the Scripture not the Whole and Complete Truth.

[Amaryllis]

Since I like to mark these posts, for myself at least, with a more-or-less-related poem,here's Wallace Stevens, from "Te Idea of Order at Key West."

If it was only the dark voice of the sea
That rose, or even colored by many waves;
If it was only the outer voice of sky
And cloud, of the sunken coral water-walled,
However clear, it would have been deep air,
The heaving speech of air, a summer sound
Repeated in a summer without end
And sound alone. But it was more than that,
More even than her voice, and ours, among
The meaningless plungings of water and the wind,
Theatrical distances, bronze shadows heaped
On high horizons, mountainous atmospheres
Of sky and sea.

It was her voice that made
The sky acutest at its vanishing.
She measured to the hour its solitude.
She was the single artificer of the world
In which she sang. And when she sang, the sea,
Whatever self it had, became the self
That was her song, for she was the maker. Then we,
As we beheld her striding there alone,
Knew that there never was a world for her
Except the one she sang and, singing, made.

---
Today is also the birthday of Langston Hughes, and since it's been unseasonably warm today, I'll celebrate by jumping the season a little bit with "April Rain Song."

Let the rain kiss you.
Let the rain beat upon your head with silver liquid drops.
Let the rain sing you a lullaby.

The rain makes still pools on the sidewalk.
The rain makes running pools in the gutter.
The rain plays a little sleep-song on our roof at night—

And I love the rain.

[Sixwing]

@TBAT, thank you so much for your hard work.
@Everyone but the troll, this thread is awesome. <3

[konrad_arflane]

I suppose Walid could be a troll from FTB, but the blogs I read there tend to be harsh on racist and misogynist stuff and TBAT says Walid has been posting some of that.

a) They also tend to be harsh (to put it mildly) on Muslims insisting on their supposed right to censor what non-Muslims say and write. IF Walid is an FTB troll, he's an atheist pretending to be a fundamentalist Muslim - such a person might want to present as racist and misogynist to cast Muslims in a bad light.

b) However: As far as I can tell, nobody in the currently extant posts has said explicitly that the offending (racist and misogynist) remarks were by Walid. Froborr's posts on the subject were, in their entirety, "Vote to ban obvious troll" and later, "My vote was based on a comment containing both a racist and a misogynistic slur that TBAT swiftly deleted". TBAT confirmed that posts had been deleted for those reasons, but did not say who the offending poster(s) were.

Absent concrete information, my initial reading of this exchange was that Froborr was referring to a different troll than Walid. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm *obviously* wrong :-)

[The Board Administration Team]

@konrad_arflane: First, sorry your post didn't immediately appear on the board. Ironically, it was in the (TypePad) spamtrap--from which we rescued it :)

Second, our guess (which is the best we can do) is that, as you said he's an atheist pretending to be a fundamentalist Muslim.

Third, "A" troll who cycles through ip addresses from three different countries in less than 10 minutes may either be several people acting in tandem or someone using techniques familiar to hackers that allow one to spoof identities etc.

Fourth, I think that Froborr happened to be on the board to see a number of really trollish comments that purported to be from someone named Walid. We don't know if there were or were not. Comments like that are definitionally spam and removed from the board.

[Literata]

Thank you, Amaryllis! I was hoping you'd have something beautiful to post. I'm really enjoying the poems you choose.

[sarah]

Yay, Wallace Stevens and Langston Hughes!

[Izzy]

@Literata: This is wonderful. And was a nice reminder: when holidays come in the middle of the week, they often slip my mind, and when they don't, it's hard to find a way to observe them with work and everything.

Being able to read this at the end of the day meant a lot. Thank you.

[Froborr]

What I find most interesting about this piece is the way you're defining and describing magic.

Coming from outside the culture, I have always assumed that magic meant, well, more or less what it does in popular culture. Rituals that make things happen, like when whatsisname the big-name douchehat Christian preacher guy claimed to have prayed a hurricane away from the Carolina coast. That kind of thing, though usually on a much smaller and less self-aggrandizing (and douchehatty--on behalf of everyone north of Carolina who got hit by that storm, thanks, jerkass whose name I can't remember) scale. The stuff that, you know, doesn't work.

But it sounds here, at least, like you're talking more about magic in terms of a sense of wonder, which is just awesome. I am a big fan of the sense of wonder. The universe we live in, for all its hostility, is completely freakin' awesome, which is why, though I am terrible at actually doing science (lab work is boring and math is hard!) I am a huge fanboy for it.

[Timothy (TRiG)]

Obligatory Small Gods Quote: "Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it isn't still a miracle."

See also The Wee Free Men: "And it didn't stop being magic just because you found out how it was done." I love the Tiffany Aching books. (A Hat Full of Sky is possibly my favourite Discworld novel.)

TRiG.

[Laiima]

@Froborr, I'm not Wiccan, but I am Pagan, and I do think about magic to some degree. And for me, it's not just 'sense of wonder' but kind of changing things (starting with me) on a metaphysical level, or in the 10th dimension, or something. I'm not a person who tries to *direct/control* outcomes, so the fact that I never "know" what result, if any, came out of the magic I tried, is not a problem. It's experimenting, which is fun in and of itself. And I learn stuff from doing it. It's like science-for-fun, but it's also metaphysics and mystery and I don't know, complexity, fractal dimensions, etc. All the good, none of the bad.

[Froborr]

@Laiima: That actually sounds pretty cool.

Apologies if anything I said came out offensive, I should have been clear that when I say "doesn't work" I mean "doesn't work in a strictly positivist-materialist sense, measurably, in a way that can be repeated experimentally." What goes on metaphysically or in the tenth dimension or in your self is, of course, none of my business.

[Literata]

I have multiple things I mean by magic, but I think that sense of wonder is one of the most important ones. Do I do "magic" to try to accomplish things? Yup. I even think it might have helped sometimes - not in big shiny ways, but maybe by tweaking the odds in my favor. And I'm okay with multiple concurrent descriptions, so that it usually doesn't end up looking like "magic" to anyone who's not looking. And I really, really love the Pratchett descriptions of it, so TRiG is right on.

Here's a good example: because of my disability, I get angina. I went to the doctors, and they gave me nitroglycerin. This helps the pain, usually, but it also makes me need to lie down and frequently gives me a wicked headache. I also respond to angina by going to lie down and doing meditation/visualization in a magical sense. If I ask a doctor, the doctor will probably tell me that I'm using meditation skills (honed through biofeedback) to lower my blood pressure and bring my heart rate and breathing into greater coherence. If I ask a magic-user, zie might say that I did magic to make the pain go away. I'm okay with both definitions simultaneously. I like the pain going away without getting the headache, and the visualization certainly seems to work better than just lying down. So that's magical enough for me.

There are other things I do that don't come with a neat pre-packaged explanation such as "visualization works like meditation does." So if it doesn't involve unreasonable outlays of time, energy, or money (taking into account that it might not do anything at all) and doesn't involve any other harm that I can find, then if it seems to work, I'll keep using it. That's when I think about it entirely the way that Laiima describes, and that's pretty amazing too.

[Literata]

Thanks for that clarification, Froborr - and I didn't find your original statement at all offensive. (I was, quite frankly, prepared for some of the newfound Rational People (tm) from the atheism threads to come storming over here and tell me that I'm stupid and delusional, so the lack of that response has been a distinct pleasure.)

Another thing worth pointing out here is that a lot of the things I do magic about simply cannot be statistically pinned down and subjected to double-blind testing: traffic, for example. That's where I'm especially okay with "perhaps it works, I don't know why, if I did, that would be cool but would not make it not magical; perhaps it doesn't work, but it's not doing any harm and possibly doing me some psychological good."

In that sense, I also see one of the areas of magic as us using our own skills to engineer our psychology. Lucky charms increase test scores; okay, maybe it's "just" psychology, but if so, let's use it for good. Another recent study showed that a physiological placebo effect did not depend on the doctor deceiving the patient. It doesn't have to depend on trickery or deceit or purple rabbits from space. Maybe part of it is herding brainweasels, or using our own capacity for complexity and competing beliefs for good. If it helps, it helps.

[Froborr]

I am a big believer in doing whatever helps. Apparently this makes me a bad atheist? Whatev.

[Wysteria]

When I do amateur tarot readings for myself, I have two beliefs about them at once - one, the universe is telling me something. Two, my subconcious is speaking to me about things I've been ignoring using innate pattern-recognition. And both of those explanations are awesome! There is just nothing bad there. Magic pleases me.

[Literata]

Sorry, Froborr - I didn't mean to imply you're a bad atheist! Just that the hyper-rational New Atheist types can get very derisive about things that I find do help, like meditation and acupuncture.

Wysteria - yes, exactly!

[Laiima]

Thirding Wysteria and Literata and Froborr. Whatever works, works! The more explanations (no matter how implausible) the better, to my mind because Complexity!

[Froborr]

Sorry, Literata, I didn't mean that you were implying that I was a bad atheist at all! I was referring to what our troll infestation thinks of me. I should have been clearer. Sorry, I am somewhat fragmented today due to Real Life Stuff (tm).

@Wysteria: And since your subconscious is part of the universe...

[Wysteria]

Just to tangent off your post about pain blocking a little, I really enjoy using meditation to manipulate my brain chemistry. I don't do it religious, I just do it for fun, but I do enjoy telling people about the ways I've gotten my neurochemistry to roll over and play fetch with me. I've gotten some negative responses when I tell people about that - it's all in my head, it's not really happening - but it all being in my head is the best part. I can make my brain do backflips! "It's all in your head," really doesn't pass very much muster with me - the inside of my skull physically exists, I promise. I mean, I've never seen it, I suppose it could be a little green dude with a joystick like in Men In Black. Hmmm.... (My brain informs me I should not question this. Okay, brain! Whatever you say.)

[Literata]

No problem, just checking. We're both irritated with the troll contingent.

And subconscious is included in universe - yes, exactly - the way that the microcosm wraps around to the macrocosm end of things is a important to me too.

[Froborr]

@Wysteria: *facepalm*

What do these people think thinking is if not moving brain chemicals around?

Head. Desk. ARGH!

[sarah]

@Wysteria: Obligatory Harry Potter quote? "Of course it's happening in your head, but why on earth should that mean it's not real?"

I hate it when people say "it's all in your head" to me. Do they think that "because it's in my head" it doesn't affect me?

Grump grump grump.

[Izzy]

@Wysteria: Yes! This! Both meditation and Tarot.

Stuff happens. There are reasons for it. There may be more than a few reasons. I dunno. I want a nap.

[hapax]

the inside of my skull physically exists, I promise. I mean, I've never seen it

Tangenting off your tangent (careful kids, I'm a professional, do not try this at home) I highly recommend looking inside your skull.

I had an ENT physician show me the computer movies of scans, and it was just about the narcissistically nifty thing I've ever beheld.

[Wysteria]

@Froborr I really don't know - my best example is when I say 'hey, I ended up spending two hours staring at my hand because it was amazing and couldn't turn the mental state off when I wanted to, so I'm pretty sure I wasn't keeping myself there by effort' and my brother hears 'you just think you did that.' I was at the time experimenting with daily meditation while taking a class on cognitive neuroscience, I wanted to see what I could pull off.

[Kirala]

Beautiful post - I love the "slow transformation", which is such a perfect concept for this time of year. (In the southern US, it's time to start planting indoor seeds and dreaming of Spring Proper, so even without lambing I see the beginning of regrowth.)

Also, Brighid may be my new favorite goddess. (I'm mostly familiar with Greek, Roman, and Norse traditions, and while Athena was probably my fave, she's a bit too warlike to match my personality. Another crafter, though, now that I think about it.)

Yay for crafting! Especially the oh-so-difficult crafting of words.

[Lonespark]

Nifty link about Grounhog Day and reconstructed Germanic Paganism:

http://deitscherei.blogspot.com/

[Literata]

Kirala, yay! I love "introducing" people to Brigid because if they want to develop a relationship with her, she's one of the easiest and most helpful to work with.

[Marc Mielke]

I must be a really bad atheist. I enjoy reading about paganism, know how to read tarot and find it useful (unless you're talking about my Dali deck--that thing's IMPOSSIBLE) and don't find all this completely silly so long as its not lording it over anybody: and the pagans I know who do lord it over people affect so few people they can safely be laughed at behind their backs (leaders of covens and this one Dianic girl I knew from HS who was totally weird in ways completely unrelated to her religion). I half-seriously claim to worship Superman, as much to get a rise out of other atheists as I do religious people, but save any serious disdain for people whose personal idea of religion palpably hurts others.

Oh, ob. Brigid/Walid: Nobody's mentioned LAKE O' BEER yet? Take that (with a big ol' pork sausage!).

[Literata]

Well, since there are atheist Pagans and Wiccans, I don't think anybody is doin' it wrong, necessarily! And the more Tarot readers, the better, IMHO, in the sense that self-reflection is generally valuable.

[Amaryllis]

One last poetry drive-by, because I just found out (behind with the news as usual) that Wislawa Szymborska died two days ago.

"Miracle Fair" seems to fit the thread:

Commonplace miracle:
that so many commonplace miracles happen.

An ordinary miracle:
in the dead of night
the barking of invisible dogs.

One miracle out of many:
a small, airy cloud
yet it can block a large and heavy moon.

Several miracles in one:
an alder tree reflected in the water,
and that it's backwards left to right
and that it grows there, crown down
and never reaches the bottom,
even though the water is shallow.

An everyday miracle:
winds weak to moderate
turning gusty in storms.

First among equal miracles:
cows are cows.

Second to none:
just this orchard
from just that seed.

A miracle without a cape and top hat:
scattering white doves.

A miracle, for what else could you call it:
today the sun rose at three-fourteen
and will set at eight-o-one.

A miracle, less surprising than it should be:
even though the hand has fewer than six fingers,
it still has more than four.

A miracle, just take a look around:
the world is everywhere.

An additional miracle, as everything is additional:
the unthinkable
is thinkable.

(tr. Joanna Trzeciak )

[Anonymous]

Nature displays the perfection of Author.
Infinite series of sums to collect.
Numbers divisible grow ever smaller:
Nature displays the perfect!

Depths of existence held tight in the mirror,
Real and imagin'ry numbers unite.
e to the i times pi, plus one is zero:
Depths of existence held tight!

Evil destroyeth itself, so ignore it!
Listen, there's music, the spheres sing of self.
Melodies ruled by geometry ordered:
Evil destroyeth itself!

Spacetime has timelike curves closed by a twisting,
Our geodesics keep moments exposed --
Past melds with future, eternal persisting:
Spacetime has timelike curves closed!

(with a nod to Cantor, Euler, Pythagoras, and Gödel)