At Patheos: TF: Regional sales force awards banquet

Fred Clark has posted a new Left Behind post, TF: Regional sales force awards banquet, at Patheos. This week Fred writes about pp. 368-374 of Tribulation Force.

Excerpt:

The authors’ egos couldn’t bear to attribute any meaningful flaws to their respective stand-ins, so Jenkins turns to things like this bit with the Velcro in an attempt to shield himself from the accusation of Mary Sue-ism. His avatar, Buck Williams, is thus portrayed as a bit of a schlimazel. The little mishaps that befall him are never really his fault, or anything that he could be faulted for. They don’t indicate any real failings on his part because Jenkins still desperately needs readers to admire Buck, to regard him as the object of desire for women and the object of bitter jealousy for men (or for women in sensible shoes).

The irony, of course, is that these tacked-on nonflaws are superfluous. Yes, the Buck Williams that Jenkins has been telling us about is implausibly perfect — a paragon of wit, charm, sophistication, virtue and professional skill. But at the same time the Buck Williams that Jenkins has been showing us is a deeply flawed, immoral, craven, incompetent journalistic failure — an antihero every bit as warped and stunted as Dostoevsky’s Underground Man, if not quite as likable. So on one level these interludes of slapstick are insufficient. On another level they’re redundant.

[from Fred Clark, TF: Regional sales force awards banquet, at Patheos

April 26 2011, posted at Patheos.com]


Commentators who would like to share their responses to the new post with all of Fred's fans (old and new) can cross-post to both boards.

Comments

[Rodeobob]

I never get 'first posts' because I'm just not quick-witted enough to have something good to say that quickly...

On the lack of grandeur in the scene: it really does seem like the disarming of Isreal, as part of a treaty that grants world-wide legitimacy to the state, would be an easy point to raise and drive home. It's a lay-up: the authors get to flash their history credentials ("For the first time in the modern era, the soverignty and statehood of Isreal is acknowledged worldwide") and lets them repeat their "cursed are the peacemakers" theme by having it mouthed by the Anti-Christ himself, or by a mind-mojo'd U.S. President. ("Long has peace in the Middle East been a goal of U.S. policy, and though it was accomplished by U.N., not the U.S., our sense of wonder and joy is no less for having reached this peaceful place.")

[Rodeobob]

OK, I guess I almost never get 'first posts'...

[Ruby]

Mods? For those of us who don't go to The Other Place, is it possible to put up page numbers so we know what Fred is referring to? Thanks!

[The Board Administration Team]

Ruby: Done

[Ruby]

SWEET! You guys rock.

[Lonespark]

I haven't been visiting Fred's place Over There lately. I don't feel up to wielding a cluebat, for one reason. The pagans at Patheos have really been impressing me lately, though. So I kind of feel like the parts of that place are greater than the whole. That was kind of true of Beliefnet, too, but most of the parts I spent time in were decent.

[depizan]

As I said over there: is it just me, or is it really dim of God to give his chosen ones a protective enchantment that, by all rights, ought to reveal them to the enemy? Especially if their God-given mission is to work for the enemy (which suggests that Left-Behind God is a bit off to begin with).

Looking at this stuff strictly as fiction, I can't think of any other series that completely fails to provide sensible motivations for anyone's actions.

[Lastwriter]

Reading the excerpts, it really makes me wonder something. If you knew that Nicky Mt. Lemmon was putting the mind whammy on the audience, why wouldn't you do something about it? You know, stand up and scream. Or break into an impromptu dance routine as a distraction. Or anything, really!

[Ruby]

@Lastwriter: According to the Tribbers, Christianity is now self-evident. The moment anyone converts (and I mean the very moment, no matter how many objections they had five minutes ago), it's "No thinking person can doubt the truth of Jesus. So all those people lining up for the Mark of the Beast? Meh, sucks to be them."

[depizan]

But that would interfere with God's plan, which is for Satan's plan to succeed... up to a point.

Why?

Because, that's why.

[Lastwriter]

@Ruby: Wow, that's... way scarier than anything L&J actually MEANT to be scary. Human beings: we do not work that way. D:

[hapax]

What really struck me about the quoted passage (from Fred, that is) is how very *typical* that is of a particularly egregious kind of Mary Sue / Marty Stu.

You know the one -- perfect and talented and instantly LURVED by all the "good" characters and resented by all the "bad" characters: "But she's clumsy!" "But he's terrible at communicating his feelings!" "But she's such a ditz!" "But he's such a horndog!"

"Flaws", that is, that instead of giving a character realistic depth, actually are meant to be "endearing" or "charming", usually by reinforcing stereotypes and gender / race / ethnic essentialism.

[Ruby]

hapax: "But she's clumsy!"

Bella, meet Buck. Buck, Bella.

[P J Evans]

Lonespark, it's not too bad now. Cluebats seem to be needed only occasionally. (I guess the trollish types have mostly decided to leave Fred's place alone, possibly after having been challenged on everything they say, with no way to answer.)

[animus]

Buck is Bella, and Nicolae is Edward. He spies on Buck, he manœuvres Buck to a succession of bizarre rendezvous, his mysterious mind powers work on everyone but Buck. Who does that make Rayford?

[animus]

Uh oh. I've killed the thread.

[Asha ( EHHH??)]

Rayford is his sled?

[depizan]

Rayford is Jacob?

[Skyknight]

Rayford is Carlisle?

[Firedrake]

Of course a "week" literally means "seven years". It's the obvious plain reading.

I think that World War Z offers a canonical example of how to tell an end-of-the-world story - certainly it has its stylistic problems, but I feel that the multiple viewpoints and voices are handled very well.

One of the big problems with Buck's characterisation is that all his virtues are abstract (and usually told rather than shown, but that's a separate problem), while his failings are concrete. This is one of the hard things to get right - "general praise and specific criticism" is explicitly deprecated in management courses - but I do think that if we'd had a bit more of Buck acting like a real investigative reporter and a bit less of him agreeing to bury any story that Lucifer's personal representative on Earth wants him to bury we might regard him as a bit less of a joke.

Being fair, there have been American presidents who clearly didn't regard violation of the Constitution and their oath of office as a big deal. And they didn't even need to be mind-whammied to do it.

Assuming it's done just by personnel, 10% of the US armed forces would be about 147,000 people. Call it all the current Army strength, plus half the National Guard divisions. That's an awful lot of people to be relocated to Fort Babylon.

[sewa mobil]

Nice article, thanks for the information.

[Literata]

Firedrake, I think some of the Marines and possibly AF would insist on being included, although when you're talking about the desert, the Navy might give you a pass.

[Winter]

If I was the Antichrist, I'd insist that the US put a battleship back into service and hand it over as my personal yacht. Air Force One is great and all, but an Evil Overlord needs a boat from time to time and there's nothing quite like a battleship for intimidating people.

[Literata]

Good point, Winter. Where's the GCS Kumbaya (or some other equally threatening name)? Although I might opt for a carrier. And every well-equipped Evil Overlord needs a nuclear sub or three.

[animus]

You need a flying aircraft carrier, as shown in the New Who series 3 finale. Why settle for a commercial jet?

[DrakeBob]

Being fair, there have been American presidents who clearly didn't regard violation of the Constitution and their oath of office as a big deal. And they didn't even need to be mind-whammied to do it.

How many of them violated the Constitution by essentially dissolving the country and giving up all of their own powers? I mean, that's the weird part for me.

[Flying Squid with Goggles]

"Why settle for a commercial jet?"

Apparently just so L & J can have that idiot Steele fly him around.

I'd be willing to give Carpathia a lot more evil overlord cred if he had a flying carrier.

Or a flying carrier that turned into a nuclear submarine...

[Will Wildman]

Where's the GCS Kumbaya (or some other equally threatening name)?

-
You need a flying aircraft carrier, as shown in the New Who series 3 finale. Why settle for a commercial jet?

Why stop there? I would insist on a flying aircraft carrier (GCS Kumbaya), a terrestrial submarine (GCS No More Telephones), and an aquatic paratrooper launch platform (GCS Independent Women Who Don't Find You Funny). And, once necessary, a space humvee (GCS Accurate Self-Perception).

Buck'n'Ray would be too terrified to even think of confronting my fleet.

[Ross]

@Will: There are some unfortunate (and I assume unintentional) implications of your assigning a name like "Independent Women Who Don't Find You Funny" to a military asset whose inherent nature is self-contradictory and nonsensical.

[Literata]

Will: I laughed so loudly I scared my cat.

Given the Navy's tradition of assigning interesting informal names to very big ships (Big Stick and Poopy Kitty come to mind) I think it would be appropriate to give them all names that the fringe would find threatening coming from Libruls and then imagine what the alternative names would be instead. Or the launch platform could be GCS No Cookies, short for I Don't Want A Cookie And You Don't Deserve One, Creep! Jokes about tossing cookies start in 3, 2, 1...

[Mink]

Flying Squid: Would you settle for a a flying nuclear submarine? armed with drop bears?*

These names are starting to sound like something Ian M. Banks' Culture would come up, which is not a bad thing at all. The GCS Comfortable Shoes, Dammit for example....

* - It's like Guerthe... but with lots more punching....

[Will Wildman]

Ross: Was that the impression it gave? I imagined the aquatic paratrooper launcher as a submersible that would approach coastal regions undetected, rise to the surface, and then fire paratroopers into coastal regions human-cannon-style. Perhaps very niche-oriented, but not nonsensical, and - most importantly - really cool.

Any other implications are definitely unintentional and regretted.

[Brin (not Meir)]

These names are starting to sound like something Ian M. Banks' Culture would come up, which is not a bad thing at all.

That's what I was thinking, especially with the Accurate Self-Perception.
All I know about the Culture I learned from TV Tropes. I plan on reading them at some point, but they're far enough down my rather big reading list that I haven't yet bothered to assign them a specific place. Definitely after Dragon and Liberator, I Shall Wear Midnight, and the two most recent Jasper Fforde books. Probably after Vorkosigan as well.

[Vermic]

As I said over there: is it just me, or is it really dim of God to give his chosen ones a protective enchantment that, by all rights, ought to reveal them to the enemy?

In a strange coincidence, at this very moment, my co-worker in the other cubicle is talking about how people who are "saved" are able to see through Obama's lies for what they are. There really are people who believe in this.

(For accuracy, I should point out that he doesn't believe that Obama is the Antichrist -- that'll be the next Pope -- just a "junior Antichrist" who will help clear the way. Not sure whether he thinks Obama has any magical powers, or whether he's just an ordinary Muslim who lies all the time, as Muslims are commanded to do to all non-Muslims. That's in the Koran, you know, which Obama learned all about when he was attending one of those "wasabi" terrorist schools in Indonesia.

I can't write parodies like this, folks. Somebody actually said it.

[Literata]

Wasabi terrorists go around putting extreme spices in your food when you're not looking.

[depizan]

In a strange coincidence, at this very moment, my co-worker in the other cubicle is talking about how people who are "saved" are able to see through Obama's lies for what they are. There really are people who believe in this.

While I'm somewhat facinated (in the trainwreck sort of way) as to what "Obama decoded" sounds like - is it similar to playing heavy metal backwards? - I would hope your co-worker wouldn't become ill in Obama's presence.* Because when protective enchantments and detect evil spells make people less able to fight evil instead of more able, something is very, very wrong. (Left Behind God wants Buck to be found out? He has a sick sense of humor? He's much better at smiting magic than protective magic?)

Mind you, the naughty part of me wonders what would happen if you left a small jar of wasabi on your co-worker's desk. Or even kept one on your own desk.

I know, I know, teasing the misguided and misinformed is bad. *sigh*

*Not that Obama is the antichrist, of course. We're just pretending for a moment that your co-worker isn't a nitwit.

[Vermic]

I know what you mean. So far in the books, all being Saved grants you is the power to be just as helpless as everybody else, only you also get to feel bad about it and occasionally get tummy aches.

[Literata]

Actually, depizan, I think it's of a piece with the evangelical expectation that for the truly saved, one's feelings are the infallible guide to the "goodness" of anything one encounters. Thus, it doesn't really matter for the authors whether Buck looks odd or is weakened; it matters that they show that his feelings are 100% accurate and reliable, and thus when he follows them in other odd situations, that too will be a "leading" from God. In fact, they might take delight in emphasizing how overwhelming (and therefore true and accurate) his feelings are to him, but how nobody else is aware of it or of his distress.

A competent theologian would be able to rescue something from this mess about the foolishness of Christ being wisdom and the weakness of God, etc. But we've got L&J, so no risk of that happening.

[Mink]

@Vermic: "only you also get to feel bad about it and occasionally get tummy aches."

Are we sure that's not the cookies?

[Mad Latinist]

Luke, trust your feelings.

[Will Wildman]

I think the implication is that being Saved grants you the power to know when you're Just Better than everyone else in the room. The nausea is a side-manifestation of the same thing that causes LB-God to be so full of love that he has no choice but to set bad people on fire forever: natural superiority brings with it the compulsion to be disgusted by 'lesser' things.

My conclusion is that Buck's nausea is psychosomatic. "I'm in the same room as the Antichrist... since I'm Saved, I just know I can feel the Evil. It's like - nausea or something. Yeah, I bet I'm going to feel REALLY sick if he just gets a bit closer... yeah, I'm totally nauseous. Gross! Antichrist! Nausea!"

Rayford doesn't feel sick, not because he's too far away, but because he's too distracted staring at Buck. If they were both sitting there it would be an I'm-more-nauseated-than-you contest.

[Froborr]

If *I* were the Antichrist, I would demand a flying carrier equipped with giant robots I could drop on troublesome cities. Or fighter planes that turn into robots, that would also be acceptable.

Because screw efficiency, I'm the Antichrist dammit, and if I want ridiculous weapons that make no sense I should get them!

[hidden_urchin]

There are also some who do say they feel ill when they see people they perceive as "evil."

One I was speaking with told me "all you have to do is look in [a particular rock singer's] eyes to see evil incarnate. He is possessed." All I saw was a fairly wild costume and a lot of heavy eye makeup. But I'm not an RTC.

[Vermic]

Exactly, right? The most embarrassing thing would be to have the history books say about you, "As a global dictator, his reign was functional and unremarkable." (Especially if you are a woman.) Some excess is just natural for the job -- that's why Nicky's strange pig-fisting interlude makes a degree of sense, although he seemed to seriously get into it and that's just unhealthy.

Me, I'd use space lasers to etch the moon into a perfect icosahedron and carve numbers on it. It wouldn't make a good d20 because the same side always faces the earth, but I'd use that to my advantage. I'd put the "20" in front and then, all over the world, billions of people could look up at the sky every day and say, "Hey, I rolled a natural 20, it's gonna be a good day."

Are we sure that's not the cookies?

Hee.

[Rebecca]

According to the Tribbers, Christianity is now self-evident. The moment anyone converts (and I mean the very moment, no matter how many objections they had five minutes ago), it's "No thinking person can doubt the truth of Jesus. So all those people lining up for the Mark of the Beast? Meh, sucks to be them."

"Just put up the mask, then it's pretty."

[Mink]

Rebecca: Have a lovely Internet for that Fantastick reference... an internet with a wall right down the middle. ^_^

Now I have that wonderful earworm in my brain. Round and round in a magic spell! Velvet gown, pink lapel! Life is a colorful carousel! Reckless and terribly gay!"

[Rowen]

I know that whenever I get cookies from Mrs. Fields', I get a tummy ache. . .

[Lunch Meat]

Me, I'd use space lasers to etch the moon into a perfect icosahedron and carve numbers on it. It wouldn't make a good d20 because the same side always faces the earth, but I'd use that to my advantage. I'd put the "20" in front and then, all over the world, billions of people could look up at the sky every day and say, "Hey, I rolled a natural 20, it's gonna be a good day."

Is there a paypal to donate to this project? I want to do it.

[Rowen]

I have a sudden urge to let my unfastened hair billow till it reaches the floor.

[Kitryan]

I'm delurking to ask if anyone else found themselves confused by the behavior of velcro described here?
Buck is applying a velcro backed badge to his breast pocket- now either he has a strip of fuzzy velcro on his pocket, which would be decidedly uncool looking, or his shirt is made of fuzzy material. It seems like the latter: since his badge gets caught in his shirt. Now, I work with velcro and fabrics on a regular basis and *Velcro Does Not Work Like That* Not on any standard woven shirt fabric that one might wear to an important treaty signing event.
He must be wearing some sort of fuzzy sweater, which must be the Global Weekly uniform, as they've got badges that they've make specially to stick to it. So now I've got a mental picture of the Global Weekly crew in fuzzy grandma knit sweaters. Possibly with various holiday themes pictured.

[Lila]

hidden_urchin: There are also some who do say they feel ill when they see people they perceive as "evil."

Doesn't even take evil. There was a memorable letter to Dear Abby (late 1970s or early 1980s?) from a person who felt like throwing up any time she heard someone speak any language other than English.

[Froborr]

Is it too much to hope that Abby's response was, "Stop being a bigot, you weirdo?" But with more cursing?

[Literata]

Kitryan, I was briefly puzzled by that as well, but perhaps GW has stylishly imitated the Army and gotten polar fleece jackets that hold velcro.

[Ruby]

Lastwriter: Wow, that's... way scarier than anything L&J actually MEANT to be scary. Human beings: we do not work that way.

I'll give you just one example. Chaim holds out for much longer than most of the Tribbers--he doesn't convert until Book 10 out of 16--and once he does, Tsion Ben-Jewishguy immediately taps him to be the "modern-day Moses" and lead the Jews out of Isreal. And even though he's been a believer for a matter of weeks, this is how he responds when he sees scores of people line up to take Nicolae's mark (and thus condemn themselves to Hell forever, no tag-backs):

"They know their options. No one alive could doubt that a great gulf is fixed between good and evil, life and death, truth and falsehood. This is the battle of the ages between heaven and hell. There is no other option, and no honest man or woman can claim otherwise."

-Desecration, p. 87

[Froborr]

@Ruby: "No tag-backs" reminds me of a Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal cartoon I saw once, but I'm too lazy to go through the archives and find it. It consisted of God saying, "If you confess your sins before you die, you go to Heaven. Otherwise, you go to Hell." The caption was, "God also enjoys hopscotch and freeze tag."

[Amaryllis]

In a strange coincidence, at this very moment, my co-worker in the other cubicle is talking about how people who are "saved" are able to see through Obama's lies for what they are. There really are people who believe in this.
Okay, this is from a recent RaptureReady thread:

[Obama will be re-elected] because God may very likely allow it. The Almighty uses both evil and good men to accomplish His purposes. Our POTUS is simply a chess piece in God's master plan. Unfortunately that plan includes America's demise. Whether he knows it or not, O is not accomplishing his own agenda, he is being used by God to accomplish God's purposes. It is checkmate time folks....we're in the days of Noah and I hear thunder...and I feel the raindrops.

However, I will still do everything I possibly can to keep him from being reelected.

Um, what? The conclusion doesn't seem to follow from the premise, does it? If it's God's Will, why are you working against it?

Of course, it was a thread discussing the stupid "birther" thing, and of course they're still not satisfied:

But now that the document was released the conspiracy gets more intricate. In my opinion it will never stop and nothing that is provided will be sufficient.

and

I was never even concerned where he was born, he isn't and could never be a natural born citizen as his father was a kenyan national at the time of his birth.

not to mention

but if his birth name was Barry and later on in life he chose the name Barak, why does his birth cerrtificate say Barak?

Something tells me that logic is not the strong point here.

(No, maybe I shouldn't laugh at them; there were, in fact, a couple of responses to that one, gently explaining the concept of a nickname...but sheesh.)

[Brin (not Meir)]

There was a memorable letter to Dear Abby (late 1970s or early 1980s?) from a person who felt like throwing up any time she heard someone speak any language other than English.

This being pre-Youtube, I suppose she wouldn't have had access to this to see if she reacted to it. (It would probably depend on whether she knew beforehand what it was.)

Are presence-of-evil stomachaches related to unhealthy-food stomachaches? I get those. (Potato chips > cheddar Goldfish crackers > chocolate.)

[depizan]

@Brin

That vid is awesome. :D Your brain tries so hard to make out words that aren't actually there.

@Kitryan

I had so much trouble trying to make sense of Buck's contortions that the Velcro question was the last one on my mind. Did I miss him losing an arm?

[Choir of Shades]

Vermic, I love you and wish to bear your children. In all seriousness though, that would be epic.

Personally, I'd want the Transdimensional Fortress Macross for my Insane World Dictatorial (IWD TM) flagship. It's a Long Island-sized spaceship that transform into a giant robot. Oh, and it can manipulate space-time. It also comes stocked with fighter jet-mecha hybrids.

And now I'm conflicted. Do I carve the moon into a giant d20, or do I paint it to look like the moon from Majora's Mask? Probably the latter, since A) less likely to screw with the tides and B) it would cement my title as Lord of Terror (seriously, the moon in MM is freaking creepy).

[Brin (not Meir)]

That vid is awesome. :D Your brain tries so hard to make out words that aren't actually there.

It is indeed awesome. The odd thing is, it gets more convincing the more times you listen to it. 'Round about the fourth time, I could hear entire sentences, especially in the first verse.

[Ruby]

Amaryllis: Um, what? The conclusion doesn't seem to follow from the premise, does it? If it's God's Will, why are you working against it?

Perhaps he means "work against it" in the same way the Tribbers "work against" Carpathia--they whine and pull stupid pranks and laugh at him, but never do anything substantive.

[Akedhi]

Regarding the RTC tendency to declare that they can sense evil or demonic possession, I am reminded of an incident when I was about fifteen (and reading everything labelled fantasy I could find at the local library), when my mother declared that she had picked up one of the books and "felt the evil in it."

The book in question was an omnibus volume of The Last Herald-Mage Trilogy by Mercedes Lackey. If you are unfamiliar, it's basically angsty pretty boys having even more angsty romance with other angsty pretty boys. Also there are magic white talking horses.

[depizan]

@Akedhi

To be fair, there are some fairly evil villains in there. :P

[Winter]

How about an aircraft carrier that can travel under desert sand? It'd be handy for a regime based at Babylon. I came across the idea in an old manga series called Area 88 and it's also in the video game, though that version just had tracks for rolling on top of the sand.

For bonus points, the game was retitled UN Squadron for its US release.

[Mark Temporis]

I used to KICK ASS at U.N. Squadron! It's sequel, Carrier Air Wing...not so much.

[Asha ( EHHH??)]

I... I can't help it... now my mind is filled with images of Nicky/Buck mpreg...

[Timothy (TRiG)]

That song actually is made up of English words. See this blog post, which contains two versions, the second with subtitles: "What American English Sounds Like to Foreigners".

It's even funnier with the subtitles, but watch without first.

TRiG.

[Jarred]

The whole "nausea in the face of evil" conversation reminds me of an online Christian who talked about how upset he was over sin. He commented the one time that whenever he knew his roommate in college was "fornicating"*, he'd become nauseated by the thought of it. I suggested that if he spent enough time thinking about his roommates sexual activities that he was actively becoming nauseated, he was probably spending an unhealthy amount of time thinking about his roommate's sex life.

He didn't appreciate my observation.

---

* To be clear, please note that said nausea wasn't some sort of premonitory indication of what his roommate was doing, but a result of already knowing what his roommate was doing and thinking about it. I should also note that they shared a suite and had separate bedrooms.

[Akedhi]

@depizan

Yes, but I'm pretty sure the evil she was referring to was that there were ZOMG gay people in it. Also, sometimes the characters said 'damn.'

[Jarred]

@Akedhi: Yes, but I'm pretty sure the evil she was referring to was that there were ZOMG gay people in it. Also, sometimes the characters said 'damn.'

Thank goodness she never read any of the later Valdemar books, where these horrors were compounded by the introduction of polyamorous characters! Her stomach might have exploded!

[depizan]

@Akedhi

I figured. I was just being silly. Because feeling evil in a book is silly. Unless it's the Necronomicon, of course.

Now what were those words again... Clatto Verata Necktie?

[Akedhi]

@depizan
Oh, yeah, of course. *cough* That makes sense, of course. Though, honestly, with my mom? You never can tell. She's been known to burn D&D manuals because she had a nightmare and decided it meant they contained real demons.

[Lila]

Froborr: Is it too much to hope that Abby's response was, "Stop being a bigot, you weirdo?" But with more cursing?

No cursing, but yeah, that was basically the response. (Not sure now whether it was Dear Abby or Ann Landers...stupid brain....)